Sustained DPS - Page 2

◊ Praetorian · 07/02/06, 3:12 PM

Originally Posted by Digo

I'm guessing it was more a matter of not enough shamans to go around. There's no rogue gimmick to this fight. They can't tank hateful strikes.

Yeah, we had 2 shamans to devote to pure melee DPS groups with WF/SoE. We had 4 DPSish warriors and 5 rogues. 9 people for 8 slots. In retrospect had I known just how much being the Thunderclap bitch would impact Diospadre's DPS, I would've left him out of the WF group instead, but at the time I was abiding by the logic that WF is more crucial for warriors than rogues.

• QControl · 07/02/06, 3:14 PM

http://ctprofiles.net/33427 is my profile. Pretty standard 20/31 combat swords build except for having Imp Kick for reasons I'm not really sure of anymore. Only real hole in my gear is CTS instead of Maladath, but since I'm getting the first Iblis, it's not that big of a deal anymore.

◊ Praetorian · 07/02/06, 3:15 PM

Originally Posted by Wodin

Originally Posted by tenarius

I assume you were doing something more important than having Windfury though!

I was the odd man out. 5 rogues, four slots in the DPS groups. :P The warrior in my group was trying deperately to stay alive, and I had grace/str/2xconsecrated sharpening stone. Proves just how shite grace/str are by comparison.

You shouldn't have had Strength of Earth -- your shaman was fucking up if you did. The extra buff was pushing off important slots when the tanks had stuff like HoTs and Ancestral Fortitude proccing on them.

• moz · 07/02/06, 3:18 PM

Originally Posted by Falcon24

I forgot to apply Blessed Wizard Oil :[

Falconius casts +5 skill on Falconius' Staff of the Qiraji Prophets.

Spell failed. You are immune.

Digo · 07/02/06, 3:34 PM

Originally Posted by Praetorian

Originally Posted by Wodin

Originally Posted by tenarius

I assume you were doing something more important than having Windfury though!

I was the odd man out. 5 rogues, four slots in the DPS groups. :P The warrior in my group was trying deperately to stay alive, and I had grace/str/2xconsecrated sharpening stone. Proves just how shite grace/str are by comparison.

You shouldn't have had Strength of Earth -- your shaman was fucking up if you did. The extra buff was pushing off important slots when the tanks had stuff like HoTs and Ancestral Fortitude proccing on them.

I'm almost positive that even if the buff icon gets pushed off, you still have the benefits. I believe you can actually have up to 24 active buff effects, though only like 12 of them are displayed.

• Snowy · 07/02/06, 3:44 PM

Originally Posted by Digo

Originally Posted by Praetorian

Originally Posted by Wodin

I was the odd man out. 5 rogues, four slots in the DPS groups. :P The warrior in my group was trying deperately to stay alive, and I had grace/str/2xconsecrated sharpening stone. Proves just how shite grace/str are by comparison.

You shouldn't have had Strength of Earth -- your shaman was fucking up if you did. The extra buff was pushing off important slots when the tanks had stuff like HoTs and Ancestral Fortitude proccing on them.

I'm almost positive that even if the buff icon gets pushed off, you still have the benefits. I believe you can actually have up to 24 active buff effects, though only like 12 of them are displayed.

Really? My memory is hazy now, but when one of our rogues buffed himself up a ton to tank Onyxia for fun, some of his hp buffs were lost when they got pushed off the buff list.

Spankydoodle · 07/02/06, 3:44 PM

Originally Posted by moz

Originally Posted by Falcon24

I forgot to apply Blessed Wizard Oil :[

Falconius casts +5 skill on Falconius' Staff of the Qiraji Prophets.

Spell failed. You are immune.

Hahahaha!

Grimmarg · 07/02/06, 3:50 PM

I haven't really liked that damage per second thingy that came with the latest version of damagemeters. Since if I feign death it resets for me. :o

Are you certain it's accurate? :)

***edit*** - it SOMETIMES resets!

XI- · 07/02/06, 3:54 PM

Originally Posted by Digo

Originally Posted by Praetorian

Originally Posted by Wodin

I was the odd man out. 5 rogues, four slots in the DPS groups. :P The warrior in my group was trying deperately to stay alive, and I had grace/str/2xconsecrated sharpening stone. Proves just how shite grace/str are by comparison.

You shouldn't have had Strength of Earth -- your shaman was fucking up if you did. The extra buff was pushing off important slots when the tanks had stuff like HoTs and Ancestral Fortitude proccing on them.

I'm almost positive that even if the buff icon gets pushed off, you still have the benefits. I believe you can actually have up to 24 active buff effects, though only like 12 of them are displayed.

No, you can easily push buffs off in a raid setting. We had our tank lose his flask one attempt on Maexxna.

Falcon24 · 07/02/06, 3:57 PM

Why you got to be so mean moz

Kir · 07/02/06, 4:00 PM

Originally Posted by QControl

http://ctprofiles.net/33427 is my profile. Pretty standard 20/31 combat swords build except for having Imp Kick for reasons I'm not really sure of anymore. Only real hole in my gear is CTS instead of Maladath, but since I'm getting the first Iblis, it's not that big of a deal anymore.

Thanks. Was just curious if sword is able to keep up with the combat dagger rogues. Does cryingrogue, or any other of your rogues, have death's sting?

Aitro · 07/02/06, 4:01 PM

Originally Posted by Kir

Thanks. Was just curious if sword is able to keep up with the combat dagger rogues. Does cryingrogue, or any other of your rogues, have death's sting?

Just wodin.

◊ Lord BEEF · 07/02/06, 4:07 PM

How were the glancing blows against patchwerk? Were there any? I know he doesn't crush, but I'm not sure on glancing blows

Kasi · 07/02/06, 4:12 PM

I know that Virility from Vicous Cycle ended up topping the damage meter for their Patchwerk kill, hitting around I think 780 dps. She is Arcane/Fire iirc. Screenshot from their dmg meter is:
http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/854...psmeter3ov.png

Here is a screenshot of the Vis Maior Dmg meter for the fight, which has rogues on top again.
http://bleedovm.ath.cx/Images/BleedoOwnsPatchwerk.jpg

Now I also watched an Overrated video of their Patchwerk kill and somehow they had a lock hit the top of the dmg meter. How he did that I'm just not sure.

Rigby · 07/02/06, 4:18 PM

Originally Posted by XI-

No, you can easily push buffs off in a raid setting. We had our tank lose his flask one attempt on Maexxna.

I have most certainly had buffs pushed off. I remember one emps fight in particular where I wasn't getting the warlock imp buff (not showing up nor getting the hp) when standing right on top of it. I removed one of my paladin blessings and it popped right on. I have also lost the imp when standing right on top of it because of something else pushing it off. Now that I think about it, I wonder if this works the same way with flurry/8 piece wrath bonus. Both effects show up as a buff... I wonder if there is some sort of buff priority.

Felippe · 07/02/06, 4:22 PM

Since I'm a warlock I'd like to ask if Gilliam/bartolimu can come in here and post his view of the fight and his DPS strategy.

• Snowy · 07/02/06, 4:24 PM

Originally Posted by Kasi

I know that Virility from Vicous Cycle ended up topping the damage meter for their Patchwerk kill, hitting around I think 780 dps. She is Arcane/Fire iirc. Screenshot from their dmg meter is:
http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/854...psmeter3ov.png

Here is a screenshot of the Vis Maior Dmg meter for the fight, which has rogues on top again.
http://bleedovm.ath.cx/Images/BleedoOwnsPatchwerk.jpg

Now I also watched an Overrated video of their Patchwerk kill and somehow they had a lock hit the top of the dmg meter. How he did that I'm just not sure.

Do they have a shadow priest? One in the warlock group with VE is infinite life tap.. and the 10-15% dmg bonus on top of everything else. Hard to see it happening otherwise unless he's getting dedicated healing?

Felippe · 07/02/06, 4:29 PM

Originally Posted by Snowy

Do they have a shadow priest? One in the warlock group with VE is infinite life tap.. and the 10-15% dmg bonus on top of everything else. Hard to see it happening otherwise unless he's getting dedicated healing?

If the warlock was MD/Ruin and used the succubus rez trick, it would be possible. With 5/5 Shadow Weaving and Curse of Shadows stacked that would become a total of +50% shadow damage. If without buffs his Shadow bolts hit for 1000, then they would hit for 1500 normal, and then 3000 crit. And then after that they would hit for 1700 normal, and 3400 crit with Shadow Vulnerability. From that point it's a matter of keeping your cycle of Corruption -> Immolate -> SB x5 -> SBurn until you have to Life Tap and then keeping your DoTs up while you do that.

Kasi · 07/02/06, 4:34 PM

I don't know, would have to ask someone from Overrated on that. What I find odd about it is even if the guy has healing, then he would still have downtime for life tapping to top up mana. While I know a mage using gems and consumables will have no time in the entire battle where the person is not doing dmg, provided they're not just going fireball every spell. I just find it odd that a warlock is on top there, where in every other dmg meter of the PW kill I've never seen a lock in the top 10, much yet number 1.

• Greybone · 07/02/06, 4:36 PM

Demonic runes and mana pots, I'd assume?

Kasi · 07/02/06, 4:44 PM

Yeah I guess so Greybone. I just assumed that if the raid was going to the point where everyone was flasked/elixired/wizard oiled that they would also use mana pots and runes too, since the latter are pretty inexpensive compared to the former.

Zagzil · 07/02/06, 5:10 PM

Originally Posted by Snowy

Originally Posted by Kasi

I know that Virility from Vicous Cycle ended up topping the damage meter for their Patchwerk kill, hitting around I think 780 dps. She is Arcane/Fire iirc. Screenshot from their dmg meter is:
http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/854...psmeter3ov.png

Here is a screenshot of the Vis Maior Dmg meter for the fight, which has rogues on top again.
http://bleedovm.ath.cx/Images/BleedoOwnsPatchwerk.jpg

Now I also watched an Overrated video of their Patchwerk kill and somehow they had a lock hit the top of the dmg meter. How he did that I'm just not sure.

Do they have a shadow priest? One in the warlock group with VE is infinite life tap.. and the 10-15% dmg bonus on top of everything else. Hard to see it happening otherwise unless he's getting dedicated healing?

No we don't have a Shadow Priest, Infnotracer (the warlock at the top of the DM) basically owned the DM for a couple reasons -

He's the best geared warlock by a large margin, the other 3 of our best geared locks quit a few weeks ago.
He was getting Power Infusions a large majority of the time (absolutely insane for locks), and also getting renews throughout the fight. Of course he was flasked up and max consumables as well, that goes without saying.

Infnotracer is sick, basically, but a mage who usually dominates DM's literally broke his keyboard during the fight (we laughed at him a lot) and so he didn't even show up on the top 10 when he easily would've been 1 or 2.

Ours went like this -

1. Warlock (5/5 Doomcaller) SM/Ruin
2. Combat Dagger rogue
3. Frost Mage (8/8 NW)
4. Sword Rogue
5. Fist Rogue (me, sigh)
6. Fist Rogue
7. Warrior (31/20, using Dark Edge of Insanity + basically perfect pre-Naxx gear)
8. Sword Rogue
9. Sword Rogue
10. Mage (8/8 NW)

PapaShlapa · 07/02/06, 5:20 PM

Originally Posted by Gauss

Pretty impressive dps from a mage. Admittedly a lot of us mages play DKP games though so unless we pop mana pots like they're candy such dps is not possible. We have noticed that even on patchwerk that 17/31/3 fire mages can output 20-30% more dps than our highest frost mage though, although at the cost of popping 1-2 major manas per patchwerk, whereas frost/arcane mages don't really have mana issues with chain casting (wisdom ftw?).

Usually our DM's are much more stratified, as we don't really have any hardcore DPS warriors: Very often all 6-7 rogues are on top, then the 7-8 mages, then hunters/warlocks. The warriors usually have some sort of auxiliary role such as nightfall proc bitch because we run a caster heavy raid most of the time. As to the correlation between DKP accumulation and DPS, it's a bit skewed in our guild because a lot of people play some sort of games with the DKP system, ie pass on upgrades and just pvp to rank 13/14, so people who have spent virtually no DKP are up there in DM.

I should note though we have not killed Patchwerk yet because of... well Arthas sucks, but we have lasted 7 minutes in the fight before so we know what damagemeters tends to turn out like.

I don't know what patchwerk DMs you were looking at G-man, but every patchwerk attempt I've been at has been every mage at the top, then all the rogues, then I don't remember. Would be 3 fire mages, then frost mages, then a combat fists GM rogue, then combat daggers, then the rest of the rogues. I also found our 17/31/3 mages to be doing the most DPS by a LARGE margin, sustaining 700ish dps. Myself, Gauss and Tiresias being about double the highest rogue. Gogo mages I guess.

Kasi · 07/02/06, 5:39 PM

I would imagine some 17/31/3 mages getting the same treatment as ifnotracer (PIs, maybe even an innervate as well as using consumables) using fireballs/fireblasts would be able to get some truely insane dmg on this fight (higher than scorch fire mages I would guess). How high I don't know. But probably easily break the 800 dps barrier.

Dolohov · 07/02/06, 5:51 PM

I had meant to ask Gurg about the warlocks in his raid, but I see it's already been brought up, at least indirectly.

What I want to say is that the DPS potential of warlocks is squandered by most guilds. It's for a silly reason too: they don't take advantage of a dedicated shadow priest, instead insisting that all priests in the raid should merely be healbots.

Given a raid with just one shadow priest and a bunch of warlocks with high crit% and the (recently buffed) Improved Shadow Bolt talent, warlocks can get a near-constant +45% bonus to their shadow damage from debuffs alone (CoS + Improved Shadow Bolt + 5/5 Shadow Weaving). Stick the priest and your warlocks in a group together, and the warlocks can pretty much DPS all out indefinitely, due to Vampiric Embrace and Life Tap. Furthermore, as the debuff prioritization system matures, warlock DoTs will become a significant component of their DPS, rather than getting knocked off after 2 ticks like they have in the past.

We're talking serious DPS here, folks. Damage meter topping DPS. Give your warlocks a shadow priest. They'll love you for it. :)