Depending on the actual balance of the multipliers, it would be simple to alternate damage sources (physical/magic) every 10 seconds to ensure high multipliers each round. Judging by your example, it would be at least a 2x multiplier, making up for the downtime each DPS class has.

Here is a side by side comparison of our first Patchwerk kill and our most recent one:



First kill on the left (390 seconds - maximum consumable use), most recent kill on the right (410 seconds - patchy consumable use, no flasks for the casters and so on). Some of the major points that came out of our DPS post mortem for that fight:

- Rasta has picked up 3 pieces of Bonescythe since the first kill and with similar consumable use improved by 75 DPS or so.
- Twitty has 2 more pieces of Bonescythe and respecced combat daggers from his original prep build. He improved by 65 DPS. On the more recent kill he was completely out of consumables so a much larger improvement would be expected next time.
- Gornik has had no gear upgrades, used the same consumables and came in at the same DPS as last time.
- Properly equipped and specced fury warriors put out sick DPS. Yussef (our best equipped one) pulled 707 DPS. He thinks that is near to the maximum he can get barring a few small consumable changes.
- Lacking many of the more expensive consumables mage DPS was down quite a lot on last time (90-100 DPS in some cases).

just curious..how do you explain the warlocks being higher by a fair amount without consumables ?

The warlock who didn't have to keep an imp up and was thus able to sacrifice a pet for mana regen (Aequitas in both cases) sustained 403 DPS first fight and 411 DPS second fight. I have no idea how he managed a small improvement while missing a flask but I guess the big post mortem we held after the first fight lead to some improvements in technique from several people.

Ahh a million dollar question.

Mana is finite for warlocks on this fight. To maximize the damage we need to know how long the fight will take. If we overshoot, we end up going OOM and into a death spiral of wanding and waiting on bandage timers and potion until the boss is dead, hurting the DPS. If we undershoot, we could have spent more mana in that amount of time to do more damage but didnt, similarly hurting the DPS. Ideally you end the fight with 100 hp and 100 or so mana, if you are in the typical situation of not getting heals for mana on Patchwerk.

Most warlocks aren't going to plan their attack chain in Excel like I have so are going to have to spend each attempt working that out, and its hard to gauge until you can actually go the full 5.5 to 7 minutes it takes to kill patchwerk. A naive approach like SP spam for the entire fight will only pull about 300 dps, as doesn't spend its full potential of mana, and also doesn't mesh well with maximizing bandage and potion timers. Shadowbolting to OOM lifetapping it all and wanding while waiting on banage timers is even worse (250dps or less).

FWIW with a conflag spec (no imp SP however) My attack chain is Immolate + Searing Pain with somewhat planned out Bandage and Greater Dreamless Sleep potions for 415 base dps. A flask adds 55 dps or so to this. However I also switch to shadowbolt for some amount of the fight (the last 90 seconds or so), using more bolts earlier depending on how much Judgement of Wisdom was up for the SP spam, which pulls the dps up to 450 ish (theoretical, due to +hit resists its 9% less in reality). Then my imp gets 27 dps as well, if you get it a spirit buff and are careful to have it stop attacking when it goes OOM and restart when its nearly full again.

An obligatory post



1 - CD rogue with Sting/Maexxna fang
2 - Combat swords with AQR/CTS
3 - CD with TF (pretty amazing result for mh TF)
4 - Combat swords with CTS/Brut
5 - Combat swords, dont remember weapons
6 - Combat swords with CTS/Hakkari
7 - 2h Fury with DeOI
8 - Combat swords with CTS/Maladath
9 - Combat swords with CTS/Nightmare blade
10 - Me, profile in signature
11 - Elementalist mage (31 frost/20 fire)
12 - Hunter with X-bow
13 - fire mage
14 - fire mage
15 - frost mage
16 - Hunter with larvae (i think)
17 - frost mage
18 - hunter with huhu stinger
19 - Arms with Askhandi
20 - Hunter
21 - only warlock with full nemesis and wraith blade
22 - MT :)


I've had no +dmg buffs at all, because i wasnt sure that would be a kill. Also i forgot to equip my rune of the dawn and really screwed pots/gems timing and spent about 40 seconds wanding.

P.S. DieAlot is Angellic pet, so together that moves him on 11th place.

Wait till Thaddius, that's where Sword Rogues shine. Well, that and Loatheb from my understanding.

Without having any personal experience with Loatheb... Does the rogues exceeding crit max (effectively wasting part of the buff) favor hunters instead of rogues in terms of damage output?

Also, how does 499.6 DPS for a hunter (pet included) compare on Patchwerk?
Edit: With a Rhok'delar, I might add :P
Edit 2: I can't type numbers.

No it just means sword rogue's are critting all their specials instead.

Edit: To elaborate, Dagger rogues are have the extra 30% crit on backstabs due to talents meaning the gains made from the crit buff is lower for them whilst sword rogues go from their standard crit rates to much higher.

Isn't there a lower effective cap on crits though, since glancing, parrys, dodges... can't crit?
All of which don't affect ranged...

For Swords or Daggers? Swords clearly get the larger % effect from the 60% crit, meaning if the two Rogues were matched in DPS prior to Loatheb, the Sword Rogue would pull ahead on Loatheb.

Good point :P
I think I'm too used to specials and regular auto attacks having roughly the same set of rules ;)

Edit: Guess this was skipped since I edited in on the previous page... How does a total DPS of 489.6 on Patchwerk (6:55 kill) as a hunter (with pet included) compare? Using Rhok'delar, I might add :P

I'm trying to work out some theorycraft dps for loatheb, so do any of you rogues (or any class for that matter) know / can predict what your average dps would be before and after the crit buff?

The point was that daggers gain 35% crit to bring them to 100% (effective crit cap would marginally reduce this down on specials) while swords gain 60% crit to bring them to 90% while the maximum amount is lower, the "DPS gained" through the additional crit's is larger for swords. The large crit rate is really what makes backstabs superior so when you start balancing the crit rates of both then the dps gain becomes larger for swords since you're using alot more specials.

I'll ask our rogues/warriors what theirs was when the servers come up but from memory our highest warrior was at around 240k damage at the 5 minute mark with the buff on almost all the time. Top rogue was around 200k, combat daggers with ds/pugio, full dd but no naxx gear as yet again with the buff almost all the time.

Two mages topped 280k but they both managed to steal alot of ignites. However we were running seriously short on pots on our 5 minute attempt so everyone had to bandage at least 2 and mostly 3 times, which affects melee dps most. Somehow we need to squeeze an extra 10% from somewhere..ah the fun that is farming for loatheb :(.

Not sure what numbers they would be/were getting without the buff but our top rogues only get around 650dps on patchwerk while our top/luckiest mages get around 750.

Well casters don't have glancing but we have resists... it's the same effect really, just a different mechanic... though mages will often have far less resists than warlocks on average... (Make suppression all trees kthx!)

Isn't the effect - crit +50% to melee and +60% to spells?

I'm really looking forward to seeing how well the Imp SB proc works when we're critting that much... should be pretty insane... and the MD/ruin guys with their sac/rez'd succubus will be raping all the locks I'm sure...

no, you're about right. Tho rogues can still do very well. I don't know whether its just us but our warlocks and hunters are way way behind, to the point where we can really only afford to bring 2-3 of each :S.

Nope warlocks just suck for the fight. We never had any real high DPS locks to begin with, but their performance is pretty damn bad on this fight even compared to patchwerk.

I have to assume it won't, given that frequency isn't modified by the first 10 points, but you never know. If I could get >10 +skill to anything, I'd test it, but neither 1.12 nor ACL have dropped for me, so someone else is going to be on that one.

Number of glancing blows is prolly treated like crushing, mob defense skill vs min(5*player level, player weapon skill).

I don't think it will either, personally, but I've just been lookng for some better way to mitigate glancing blows, I doubt this does it but it's worth some parsing. I need some ACL's though...

last patchwerk kill :
same spec and gear as last kill where i did 535 dps and was on top. This time I didnt use shadowpower elixir :( and again no demonic runes.I slacked so much , used toep only 4 times thru out the fight.



I just hope next time I dont spend my runes on wipes :(
For the warlocks out there :
damage done from shadow bolt :

corruption:

curse of agony :
38924 , dont want to post picture because have to post 10 sceens to cover coa(it couns every resisted tick and ... well its complex nevermind :))