Fire mage can dps a lot of more than frostie can do, frosties just can continue it forever. Never seen Patchwerk and dunnos if I do, but even with my pretty average gear (~600dmg 6%hit 6% crit) I can push over 550dps barrier easily. When locks dont scratch their balls and imp. scorch is up, i guess that I could push over 650 flasked and fully buffed. PI's and innervates: jesus christ.
Right, but for how long? A Patchwerk fight is 6min+ of chain nuking and there's no chance in hell that you're getting an innervate. Obviously short-term DPS is a different story, and I'd frozen DMs after 90 seconds, they'd look different.
Fire mage can dps a lot of more than frostie can do, frosties just can continue it forever. Never seen Patchwerk and dunnos if I do, but even with my pretty average gear (~600dmg 6%hit 6% crit) I can push over 550dps barrier easily. When locks dont scratch their balls and imp. scorch is up, i guess that I could push over 650 flasked and fully buffed. PI's and innervates: jesus christ.
Right, but for how long? A Patchwerk fight is 6min+ of chain nuking and there's no chance in hell that you're getting an innervate. Obviously short-term DPS is a different story, and I'd frozen DMs after 90 seconds, they'd look different.
It's possible to maintain that dps but probably not as horde. As alliance, paladins can judge wisdom and I can spam scorches and lose a net maybe 500-1000 mana per minute, which is pretty damn efficient. While not inconceivable, it definitely requires some upkeep with mana pots.
While I'm not commenting on the quality of your paladins, I find any dps comparison conversation are best when you leave comments like "but if someone else does this". From my personal experience, just getting enough pallies on to cover the blessings is hard enough, and I can't say I blame them. I think people go overboard with JoW, assuming it's constant. I ask for JoL all the time, most of the time I get back "busy healing". Maybe, MAYBE, on ebonroc. And the only time dps will get innervate over healing is only on farm mode, and who gives a shit about DM's on your 100th clear of MC?
I'm curious as to what DM's look like in agro sensitive fights. Are there any in Naxx?
Would have been interesting to see a very well-geared Arms warrior in a dedicated DPS role on those DMs though (Choc etc.).
EDIT: and yes, that looks about right for Xane's gear (though I don't know what he was using for that fight in particular).
Im looking forward to attempting Patchwerk I never really had a chance to go all out on a boss before I hope I get to try it soon im sure I could be near the top of the dmg charts.
Gurg, I don't know what the current version of damage meters looks like, but the reason we havce switched over to SWstats is :
i) Automatically syncing by the raid leader - I click one button from the swstats interface, and everyone in the raid with it installed is automatically synced to the channel I've set up.
ii) It accurately measures overhealing & effective healing from my heal team, which was a *really* interesting set of stats to look at. (Ye gods Chain Heal is good).
iii) It offers breakdowns of what % of my raids damage is coming from various sources.
BAsically, it's easier to use, allows for mass syncing on any raid and gives full control to the raid leader over the stats, and shows a lot more data than the version of damage meters I last used.
ehm, is it really "safe" to use CoR on Patchwerk? I understand its potentional and its usefulness in this and other encounters, but I was under the impression that special abilities multiplies the attackpower by alot?
I guess they didn't include that on hateful strike for obvious reasons.
As for the damagemeters, we mostly have hunters/rogues in the top with me and another mage managing top3/top5 when we dont slack.
I have been fire all along and if you thought it was good before, it's insane now. Practically all our frost mages went fire and never looked back. We have a solid amount of 5-6 firemages all capable of breaking top10 so patchwerk will be interesting.
Would it be worth wearing the Regalia of Undead Cleansing, Rune of the Dawn and similar in this fight? It's ghetto gear but the 2% dmg increase set bonus is quite good.
Would it be worth wearing the Regalia of Undead Cleansing, Rune of the Dawn and similar in this fight? It's ghetto gear but the 2% dmg increase set bonus is quite good.
My spec is 28arc/23frost. I was wearing the Undead Cleansing set on our patchwerk tries and the set bonus seems to add 2% damage on hits and 4% damage on crits. So with Briarwood Reed and Rune of the Dawn i was getting 3300+ frostbolt crits.
Our best try on him was around 3 mins and i had almost full mana and 636 dps at the end. I was a bit lucky and didn't get any resists with 13% to hit, crit rate was ~24% which is normal.
Right, but for how long? A Patchwerk fight is 6min+ of chain nuking and there's no chance in hell that you're getting an innervate. Obviously short-term DPS is a different story, and I'd frozen DMs after 90 seconds, they'd look different.
17/31/3 With full use of consumeables fire mage doesn't run oom as easily you think ;) 6 mins is a long time thou but I still believe that when equally good geared fire and frost mages would race on DM for 6mins,
fire would come out as a winner. Fire mage with MoE, Arcane Concentration and Arcane Meditation, doesnt lose that much in efficiency.
Because the difference, even discounting JoW (which you do use on fights like this, as it is easily sustainable the entire fight), is enough to turn fire from superior damage to inferior damage due to the mana innefficiency.
This is what our dps meter looked like, patch went enrage mode at 2% or so:
Both me and scorp had an onyxia buff, some of the mages were using a flask of supah powa.
I had Battleshout + a str totem that fight, no wf because i was stupid enough to refresh instant poison during the clear so i was stuck with it during the fight(unless there is a way too click it off i havent found out about yet :P ). Out of +100ap stones so all i had left was instant poison on my offhand.
We had 3 more rogues but the combination of lacking some gear + lack of warriors online (they didnt have shout) was enough to keep them below all the others.
Both me and scorp are combat dagger specced, while cloze is a swordie, if i'm not wrong most of the mages are 20/0/31 specced with a couple of 28/0/23 (Tradewind one of them).
Horde. Manapots, mageblood, managems, evoc gear, manaregen/spirit enchants on gear, 25% regen while casting, if you have an overflood of shamans, manaspring & tide. While waiting for managem/pot pop, use lower rank of scorch/fireball. But it's a bit too hard to say anything about the encounter and lack of mana etc. because I havent seen it :/
Recap is a very unaccurate mod. As for SW stats it has a preety interface..But damage meters does everything + allows you to see information of indiviudals by hitting ctrl while mousing over. Syncing is just as easy.
On our kill last week, mages were out of consumables (no mana pots, buff pots etc) and finished around 600ish dps. On a 1% wipe with flasks, firepots, magebloods, etc. , all 4 mages present were above 800 dps.
I'm not confident that you can always push 800 dps on patch unless you have some insane gear as a firemage right now, but I'm highly confident you can reliably sit above 700 with full buffs.
I mean DPS is somewhat hard to measure when it comes to mages, sometimes one mage gets lucky and "owns" the majority of the ignite stacks, which is often a massive amount of damage.
For those who don't know:
When ignite is fully stacked, any crit refreshes the previous stacked amount. So if there's a 4k ignite tick stack, even one scorch/fireblast crit during the ignite window will refresh the 4k tick. When you start seeing these 3.5k+ ignite ticks refreshed so they tick 10-15 times, whichever mage gets credit for the stack (whoever crit first) stands to receive a massive damage/dps boost.
Also worth noting is that while in theory (with 1/3 imp fireblast), you could fireball-fireball-fblast to increase dps, with the amount of +dmg you sit at fully buffed, you do not gain dps by doing this. (though you do refresh ignites slightly more easily)
I'll try to get a good fraps next time. ^^
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All noncrit DoTs (not Ignite) generate Combustion charges (Bug?)
Is it worth speccing to fire only if you have other fire mages in your raid? I.e. if, at the moment, all my raid force is frost specced (and we all are), one person changing to fire wouldn't really allow for much ignite rolling. However, if 3 / 4 of us changed over at once, there's much bigger potential for that. interesting...
For those fire mages out there - whats your spell line up look like on these fights? Are you chaining fireball and interspacing with scorch to maintain the 15% damge buff? Or is it scorch spam with Fireball from clearcasting?
This is what I do: We got 4 firemages and everyone of them with imp. scorch. 1 of them is @ scorch duty, rest just spam fireball on stationary matches. I do use fireblast on bosses like Sartura. 5/5 scorch up and keep it up with every 4th fireball or something.
I just saw this thread 20 minutes ago. A few comments:
- I completely forgot to apply Blessed Wizard Oil that fight. Otherwise my array of consumables was the standard Greater Arcane Elixir/Mageblood Potion/Flask of Supreme Power combination.
- I'm the only Arcane/Frost mage in the guild; every other mage is either Frost down to Ice Barrier or is Thrillhouse.
- The mana regeneration order I used was: Major Mana Potion, Mana Ruby, Major Mana Potion, Mana Citrine, Evocation (using a macro to swap in +20 spi enchanted Soulkeeper and Dragon Finger of Spirit, then tapping it again shortly before Evoc is done to restore my regular weapons), Major Mana Potion.
- Much as people may hate their AQ sets, Enigma is a superior set for boss killing hands down (and even raiding in general - free spell hit as needed is just so much unbelievably better than 8/8 NW and you can maximize your non-Enigma slots with whatever you like). Caveat: I only have 5/8 NW since I've been 'locked out' of certain pieces for a long-ass time due to how the JP system works so I have no idea how my playstyle would change with it.
- The only difference from my CTProfile was that I was using Rune of the Dawn instead of ToEP because it's higher sustained DPS. (I've also since upgraded from Black Bark to Burrower Bracers.)
- I had theorized using the Undead Cleansing set but the big thing was that it would have meant breaking 5/5 Enigma (why couldn't they have made it a 4 piece set of wrist, chest, hands, waist with the bonus at 3 similar to the T3 sets?) which as far as I was concerned was a big no-no. (Also I didn't have the robe anyway so this is a moot point.)
(using a macro to swap in +20 spi enchanted Soulkeeper and Dragon Finger of Spirit, then tapping it again shortly before Evoc is done to restore my regular weapons)
Have you tried Itemrack ? It can do this auto-magically. Its only drawback is that spi gear wont affect first evoc tick.
Originally Posted by zeidrich
Women's breasts can be modeled as a cone and measured as V = (Db^2*h*.785)/3 and since breasts can be thought of as an amorphous fluid, you just have to worry about containing the volume of the breast.
Recap is a very unaccurate mod. As for SW stats it has a preety interface..But damage meters does everything + allows you to see information of indiviudals by hitting ctrl while mousing over. Syncing is just as easy.
I'd use DM soley if I could just figure out how to do DPS over time. It keeps resetting every fight.
Recap is a very unaccurate mod. As for SW stats it has a preety interface..But damage meters does everything + allows you to see information of indiviudals by hitting ctrl while mousing over. Syncing is just as easy.
I'd use DM soley if I could just figure out how to do DPS over time. It keeps resetting every fight.
I assume you mean the DPS and not the damage? I never look at DPS numbers in DM, so I don't know if the DPS is per-fight or accumulated - I always assumed it was accumulated.
Because if it's the damage, uncheck the "Reset Data When Combat Starts" option.
Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.
I am partial of course, but from a design standpoint rogues should definately be on top by a solid amount (perhaps 10% above the rest) on a fight like patchwerk. In a completely immobile fight with no splash damage, there really isn't an excuse for mages to be topping meters. I'm not sure from what we've seen so far that the review will help much. Sword/Fist rogues might pick up a 10% boost from +weapons depending on how much the talent grants and where we have to lose points (my guess is imp evisc.). It will also be interesting to see how the new expose armor is implemented. If we can shave the last 1000ac off a raid mob that would be exactly boost rogues/hunters need to solidify their roles.
While maybe it seems like rogues *should* be on top, the single target DPS of mages when they can just chain-nuke on a single target aggro-free is insane now.
Furthermore buffs make a big difference for mages. Being flasked up is something that we very rarely bring out for bosses, but since rogues have nothing comparable they're stuck with standard buff pots (mongoose, giants, firewater, etc.) and we tend to lag behind a bit. Also the fact that aggro is an absolute non-issue helps mages tremendously.
I personally think the more interesting thing is how far behind hunters were. Clearly different guilds have disparities in damage meters (as we had a 'lock at the top) but I mostly see Mages/Rogues and a few fury warriors on the top 10. I haven't yet seen a screenshot with a hunter. Hopefully Cryptstalker helps out hunters somewhat in mana issues, because I know our hunters were having serious mana issues with the fight. Of course it's pretty much the opposite of an ideal hunter fight, it's just interesting how much their DPS lags behind.
I figured I'd post, seeing as ours appears to be the only one with a warrior on top (and by a good deal). Sorry that there's not more information as I've yet to upgrade to DM5.0. Some pertainent information regarding the fight, we did have a nightfall warrior there (he just came back from a long hiatus, so we made him a nightfall as he was using a welfare (AV) mace). Also, our well geared combat dagger rogue was not there (would've been 1-2).
p.s. sorry to hear that you guys don't have any thunderfury's, you should just do what we did and steal the people who get thunderfurys from other guilds, we're rolling with up to 5 TF's in the raid these days.
07/02/06, 11:09 PM
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