And an affliction lock especially should be in a position to maximize spell hit since the only stats they need at all are stam, +dmg and spell hit anyway (and spell hit is cheap).
Not really because affliction warlocks aim for suppression and take +6 hit, and Soulshatter is a Demonology spell and thusly not affected by suppression.
If you don't want soulshatter to frequently resist on a 73 raid boss you will need to push 200 hit to get the full 16% from gear. I had 5 resists this week in 7 bosses in Karazhan, its flat out retarded when it happens on Morose and I can't help burn him down after the first 2 minions are dead.
Does anyone think that tailoring is a bit too strong for current raids? A warlock/shadow priest that has the spellstrike and shadoweave sets has a serious advantage over that who doesn't, which is obviously apparently by looking at most Gruul DM's. Those sets are just itemized perfectly with a good amount of damage/hit/crit and sockets.
Now I can predict that a lot of responses will be along the lines of "tailoring is finally good and I am happy", but is it a bit too good relative to other professions with respect to its impact on the end game DPS crunch?
Does anyone think that tailoring is a bit too strong for current raids? A warlock/shadow priest that has the spellstrike and shadoweave sets has a serious advantage over that who doesn't, which is obviously apparently by looking at most Gruul DM's. Those sets are just itemized perfectly with a good amount of damage/hit/crit and sockets.
Now I can predict that a lot of responses will be along the lines of "tailoring is finally good and I am happy", but is it a bit too good relative to other professions with respect to its impact on the end game DPS crunch?
Spellstrike is fine, given that it's a BoE and doesn't require you to be a tailor to wear it.
The tailoring sets are arguably too good, but only in the same way as the blacksmithing weapons are.
Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.
Spellstrike is fine, given that it's a BoE and doesn't require you to be a tailor to wear it.
The tailoring sets are arguably too good, but only in the same way as the blacksmithing weapons are.
Really though, the entry level blacksmithing weapons are the same dps as "tier 1" Karazhan weapons, and the second level blacksmithing weapons are only marginally more dps than Malchezzar drops. Not only that but the blacksmithing weapons themselves aren't ideal for raiding (what good is a 2 hander for a warrior? or mace for a rogue?). Compare this to the tailoring sets which are better than T4 and in some cases T5.
While the offensive stats of the tailor sets are quite amazing, don't forget that they are extremely weak in stats. I'm personally Spellfire, and the set has 0 stamina, in 3 major slots. So I can't (or prefer not to) use this set in AoE dmg heavy encounters, which is quite alot these days, say Maiden, Aran, Illhoof (depending), Netherspite. Just to mention a few where I will often swap out some (if not all) of the set, just to gain some stamina (excluding the Gruul affair, and I haven't been beyond).
Frozen Shadoweave has more basestats (stam), so is more forgiving, but ofc, that set has less offensive stats.
I don't see how you can argue that the Spellfire set is "better" then say the Mage T4 Aldor set. The itemization of either set is so wildly different, that they each have their use in seperate situations as I see it.
It is ridiculously easy to make a heavy stamina set for a mage but it is next to impossible to make a heavy damage-stats gear set without using the tailored items. Oh indeed there are fights where you might want to wear some of the battlecast set or whatever you like to fill it out but realistically the tailored sets allow you to make a total gear set to fit the situation you are in.
Let's put it this way, my 'standard' dps set has way more stamina and way more intellect than I need for the majority of the fights I do. If I could trade that in for more damage, crit and hit I would do it in a heartbeat. If I have to drop a tradeskill and take up tailoring to be effective in PvE though, that makes my blood boil.
Additionally, Kalman notes that "Spellstrike is fine, given that it's a BoE and doesn't require you to be a tailor to wear it" but that is only partially correct. Anyone can wear the set but only a tailor can get the "Gives a chance when your harmful spells land to increase the damage of your spells and effects by 92 for 10 sec." effect. Certainly it is not the only damage-adding portion of the set but it does count. Additionally, if we are talking a pure PvE damage set surely we mean Spellstrike plus the appropriate set of Spellfire or Frozen Shadow? I can't see any pieces dropping from raids that would make me consider not using both for fights where I am not taking significant AE damage.
I guess Anger-Spark might be a full set or something but for now it looks to me like the majority of the cloth items dropping in PvE are way too stat-heavy to be a good choice over tailored items in general.
Order is:
1 41/0/20 Affliction Warlock doing CoA for the whole fight (me. I am also the raid leader so I lost some DPS focus while barking orders at people).
2 Shadow Priest
3 Fire Mage
4 41/0/20 Affliction Warlock doing CoA for about 50-60% of the fight (our CoE Warlock died then and he had to take over.)
5 Shadow Priest
6 & 7 Fire Mages
8 Feral Druid (cat)
9 Marksmanship Hunter
10 Fire Mage
We had 2 Prot warriors, 1 Combat Dagger Rogue, and a Feral Druid as our melee. We fully flasked and stacked for our first kill. We had uh 5 Shatters including one at 2%. 15 grows I believe.
No idea what happened to our locks this run. They have been regularly top of the meters (with or without a shadowpriest) for most of our learning attempts. In general though I've found the positions on the DPS meters fluctuate massively … I guess a lot of is how lucky people get with shatters/cave-ins, and this is particularly true for our melee. In addition, I know a fair few of our hunters/mages were flasked for the above attempt, while everyone was just running regular DPS pots.
Originally Posted by Elendril
.... so I wanted to give him Tranquil Air (though no one seemed to know for sure whether it stacks with salvation or not as it is).
I'm almost certain they do stack.. I've had a horrid time on this fight DPS'ing, as we are running with a Fury/Prot Warrior OT, so I'm in constant danger of eating hurtfuls. I had tranquil & salv for some attempts, and even on the times where I had excellent runs (hitting top dps) I didn't take hatefuls. The times the shaman died (or the pally forgot to 5 min salv me :p) I was pretty much guaranteed to eat a hateful at some point. It's only anecdotal evidence, but it really did seem the two stacked.
For more anecdotal info, I notice every now and then my CombatStats and SWS stop noticing the damage I'm doing. Never found a reason, or seen it addressed on the mod sites.
I think that's the same bug that made my HitsMode just stop once or twice. There was no error, and a /reload fixed it. It was never enough of a problem to deal with, I guess.
They should, but typically on a kill shot, shatter damage will be insignificant (because there will be few shatter deaths) :P
Even without killing anybody you can easily rack up 20-30k extra damage through shatters. I would like to see detailed event reports rather than just summed up totals.
Here are composite meters for all our attempts on Gruul for the night we killed him. Since it is across several attempts, it is obviously biased by things like deaths to shatter and whatnot, but I thought it was fairly useful as a general idea of what classes/people were doing reliable damage or healing over time.
I think that's the same bug that made my HitsMode just stop once or twice. There was no error, and a /reload fixed it. It was never enough of a problem to deal with, I guess.
I never actually needed to reset anything though. The mods would just stop registering damage I'm doing for a while, then after a while resume again.
While the offensive stats of the tailor sets are quite amazing, don't forget that they are extremely weak in stats. I'm personally Spellfire, and the set has 0 stamina, in 3 major slots. So I can't (or prefer not to) use this set in AoE dmg heavy encounters, which is quite alot these days, say Maiden, Aran, Illhoof (depending), Netherspite. Just to mention a few where I will often swap out some (if not all) of the set, just to gain some stamina (excluding the Gruul affair, and I haven't been beyond).
Frozen Shadoweave has more basestats (stam), so is more forgiving, but ofc, that set has less offensive stats.
I don't see how you can argue that the Spellfire set is "better" then say the Mage T4 Aldor set. The itemization of either set is so wildly different, that they each have their use in seperate situations as I see it.
I'm at ~935 arcane/fire damage, 20.5% crit, ~55 hit rating unbuffed (23.7% crit with AI/Molten + 4% more on Scorch and 6% more on Arcane Blast) in a 41/17/3 build with 7k health and 9300 mana (unbuffed). I'm wearing all 3 pieces of the Spellfire set. You can wear them and have plenty of health and mana still. I'm actually considering making a Spellstrike set next to swap the Battlecast out for on fights I need my DPS to go up and I won't take damage (like Curator).
I'm not interested in any pieces of the mage T4 except maybe the helm -if- they put out a worthwhile metagem (it has to be worthwhile enough to break Spellstrike or Battlecast set bonus) or the shoulders if I can't get Quag's to cough up the Mana-etched from Heroic SP. I'd like to eventually get 2 pieces of T5 for the Arcane Blast set bonus and even then it'll only get limited use in big burst fights or PvP.
The tailoring stuff really is that good and it should be made BoE so non-tailors can make use of it. I'd also like the option of getting multiple sets on my mage if I do respec (many priests are also in the same boat with Mooncloth or Shadowweave). I'd like to see the tailoring gear tiered out like the weapons in blacksmithing. What we have now is BoE, then the one that requires more mats + primal nethers = BoP, and then a 3rd level that needs Nether Vortexes for down the road. It offers a bit more variety than everyone spending 6 months to get their T4 tokens and personally I'd rather they give us more options to gear up to enable players to play and go for new content.
Even without killing anybody you can easily rack up 20-30k extra damage through shatters. I would like to see detailed event reports rather than just summed up totals.
I guess that's true, however it would be difficult to parse the entire zone of shatter damage. Additionally, who takes shatter damage depends greatly on the finer points of the strategy that each guild uses. I suppose you could assume each player takes/deals 3000 shatter damage on average multiplied by 6-8 shatters. However, this would only be 10000-20000 damage which is only upwards of 5% of say 400k damage which most damage meter-topping classes seem to do.
So Moz pointed me to this thread. To clarify the situation:
- I used Super mana potions. Fel strength elixir and elixir of major agility. No elixir of mastery because I was out of it.
- I did Not have a shadow priest.
- I did Not have a shaman. Maybe I did, but I never got bloodlusted. And I never in range of totems if there were any.
- My position was in the far west. On my left is Durga (mage) and on my right is Khazal (rogue.) So I had the peace-o-mind advantage that I won't hit anyone with shatter.
- My total shatter damage was no more than 8k.
So Moz pointed me to this thread. To clarify the situation:
- I used Super mana potions. Fel strength elixir and elixir of major agility. No elixir of mastery because I was out of it.
- I did Not have a shadow priest.
- I did Not have a shaman. Maybe I did, but I never got bloodlusted. And I never in range of totems if there were any.
- My position was in the far west. On my left is Durga (mage) and on my right is Khazal (rogue.) So I had the peace-o-mind advantage that I won't hit anyone with shatter.
- My total shatter damage was no more than 8k.
^ King of hunters ^
Gurgthock should get you a +12 scope as a reward or something. What sort of a rotation did you use? Did you leave your pet out somewhere to have focused fire up? Anyways, mad props.
I am in awe that you didn't spend most of your time OOM with just Super Mana pots as your only regen o.O. And no flask of Relentless Assault?
Not to put a damper on his great dps output, but I do recall checking his armory profile actually very soon after the damage from the kill was posted by Gurgthock and Hau did have a Flask of Mighty Restoration active.
I am not 100% sure whether it was from the actual fight or if he just used one on some other encounter, but it would make more sense of his lack of mana issues.
Clarification would be great though Hau, if you see this.
Gurgthock should get you a +12 scope as a reward or something. What sort of a rotation did you use? Did you leave your pet out somewhere to have focused fire up? Anyways, mad props.
Thanks to Moz for paging King Hau to this thread.
Yeah, being able to shoot from your safe spot is really, really awesome. Also, Hau is exceptionally pro. :P
How can you help?
I can shoot things and then make my pet move toward them.
There is an option in SW stats "Damage done to target", which can help you doning so. But it is not syncronized.
While it's not syncronized, using for example a Deadly Boss Mod option to increase your combat log range to max value seems to "synchronize" it extremely well.
03/08/07, 8:45 PM
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