Problem is that hunters would get Windfury with that group instead of GoA. Giving melee TSA isn't optimal if it means giving up GoA on hunters :/
4 hunters with GoA (114 AP and 1% crit?) vs giving 6 rogues and 6 warriors 100 more AP? I think you need to do math again. Now, if you don't bring 8 warriors, 6 rogues, 5 shaman and 4 hunters to your raids, that might not be the case.
How much damage had you done at the end of the fight? I'm just trying to find answers here, because I don't think I was doing that much wrong and I don't see how I could push 125 more DPS out of myself.
~250,000. My optimal full buff full rotation dps on 0 mitigation is close to 720. Add extra ap from the ad trinket, the 200 ap from the stones, the wolves, the 4 sets of DS proccing plus a 60+dps pet. As to how or why, I don't know. I just know I kept my rotation near flawless for the odd 7 minutes, excluding the consumables popped in after autoshots to avoid autoshoot resets. And it doesn't count for much, but I was using my last ever Scorpok Assay.
Are you sure your 472 includes your pet? Because it doesn't sound right? Gear and spec-wise pretty identical, so that doesn't explain the difference.
4 hunters with GoA (114 AP and 1% crit?) vs giving 6 rogues and 6 warriors 100 more AP? I think you need to do math again. Now, if you don't bring 8 warriors, 6 rogues, 5 shaman and 4 hunters to your raids, that might not be the case.
As Gurthock said, GoA with talents is more than that, plus you can't disregard the near endless mana having a tide-shaman provides for the said 4 hunters.
I don't think it includes my pet, but I don't see my pet adding that much DPS, maybe 20-30 at best. I should note that we had other hunters that were at pretty much the same gear level and we had 3(4?) full DS sets there, so we were proccing expose weakness a lot too. I know assay adds 25 agility, but it still seems a stretch. And 250k damage? All of us broke around 140/160k if I remember correctly(though I think our fight closer to 6 minutes). That just doesn't seem plausable to me.
If you aren't a goblin, why not?
If you are a goblin you rule
Problem is that hunters would get Windfury with that group instead of GoA. Giving melee TSA isn't optimal if it means giving up GoA on hunters :/
4 hunters with GoA (114 AP and 1% crit?) vs giving 6 rogues and 6 warriors 100 more AP? I think you need to do math again. Now, if you don't bring 8 warriors, 6 rogues, 5 shaman and 4 hunters to your raids, that might not be the case.
Talented AQ20 GoA is 176 AP and 1.76% crit.
So, taking the same 4 hunters and spreading them among melee groups, giving 3 melee 100 AP each, is 1200 AP to the raid, vs 704 AP and 7.04 crit. Hm. For sustained DPS, assuming the hunters were not able to keep up with mana pots alone, I guess mana tide would tip the scale in the hunters' direction but I don't see it without that factor.
Doggie with the howl and raid buffs (well, motw and totem from the groups shaman) definetively does over 20-30dps on a raid debuffed patchwerk. I used one too, forgot to check the details unfortunately so cant say what he did exactly. (on a side note, I was still at like #10 on dmeters, with mainly mages up top, and rogues spread in there too.
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings,
Look on my Works ye Mighty, and despair!
i'm too much of a sentimental schmuck to trade in the pet i've used since week two of release for a wolf, even though wolves are mathematically so much better for raiding, but i just might make the trip into LBRS tomorrow to pick one up just in case i have a turn of heart. is that still the only place to get a wolf with max rank howl?
As far as I know. I was lucky because the pet I've had since level 48 and leveled with me ever since has been a wolf :P So I got to just tame an LBRS worg and teach howl to my current wolf.
If you aren't a goblin, why not?
If you are a goblin you rule
i'm too much of a sentimental schmuck to trade in the pet i've used since week two of release for a wolf, even though wolves are mathematically so much better for raiding, but i just might make the trip into LBRS tomorrow to pick one up just in case i have a turn of heart. is that still the only place to get a wolf with max rank howl?
Don't you dare give up a pet you've had for a long time. Seriously, it's like trading in an old-school mount for one of the new ones - it seems like a good idea at the time but you'll regret it forever.
The fact the highest warlock is 15th makes me cry:<
That or your warlocks fail but i'd assume otherwise.
Shadow bolt rank 10 costs 380 mana. Assuming the warlock also has instant corruption (ruling out md/ruin) thats another 340 mana every 20~ seconds depending on how tight you are with refreshing your DoTs. Warlocks damage is great until you have to start life tapping. If you are life tapping frequently to sustain damage per minute your damage will be much lower of course because you're using up potential sahdow bolt time regening your mana. Compared to mage efficiency i just dont think warlocks can keep up in DPM terms. Imp shadow bolt is nice, shadow weaving is also nice provided you actually have a priest with it, curse of shadows is nice but once the fight requires a fair bit of life tapping i dont expect to keep up with a more efficient class. I dont have 5/5 doomcaller though.
Alas, aye.
Giev mana efficiency:/
Should really get the parts of Doomcaller of which i still need from huhu some time.
I thought you could stable pets, so you don't actually give them up?
Limited number of slots, and at least my hunter alt already has two pets I can't give up. I would imagine someone who's a main would have acquired more than two.
i'm too much of a sentimental schmuck to trade in the pet i've used since week two of release for a wolf, even though wolves are mathematically so much better for raiding, but i just might make the trip into LBRS tomorrow to pick one up just in case i have a turn of heart. is that still the only place to get a wolf with max rank howl?
Don't you dare give up a pet you've had for a long time. Seriously, it's like trading in an old-school mount for one of the new ones - it seems like a good idea at the time but you'll regret it forever.
heh - i sold my old-school mount to a guildie who didn't have an epic when the patch came out because i had a second epic at the time (winterspring frostsaber) and i still regret it :-P
i wouldn't actually be getting rid of a pet - my stable is empty, actually :P i've literally had something like 3 pets ever - my first nightsaber, a fire roc back when they had 250 resist, and my current pet, a white tiger. every other pet i've had i've just trained for a skill and then abandoned. even stabling my tiger is an emotional experience, though ;)
4 hunters with GoA (114 AP and 1% crit?) vs giving 6 rogues and 6 warriors 100 more AP? I think you need to do math again. Now, if you don't bring 8 warriors, 6 rogues, 5 shaman and 4 hunters to your raids, that might not be the case.
As Gurthock said, GoA with talents is more than that, plus you can't disregard the near endless mana having a tide-shaman provides for the said 4 hunters.
Wouldn't tide be better on the healers though?
On a side note, I've heard conflicting answers about this: Does DM account for hunter pets in the figure provided?
4 hunters with GoA (114 AP and 1% crit?) vs giving 6 rogues and 6 warriors 100 more AP? I think you need to do math again. Now, if you don't bring 8 warriors, 6 rogues, 5 shaman and 4 hunters to your raids, that might not be the case.
As Gurthock said, GoA with talents is more than that, plus you can't disregard the near endless mana having a tide-shaman provides for the said 4 hunters.
Wouldn't tide be better on the healers though?
On a side note, I've heard conflicting answers about this: Does DM account for hunter pets in the figure provided?
I know that on DamageMeters you can include your pet as part of part of your DPS, or you can set it so that he has his own bar.
4 hunters with GoA (114 AP and 1% crit?) vs giving 6 rogues and 6 warriors 100 more AP? I think you need to do math again. Now, if you don't bring 8 warriors, 6 rogues, 5 shaman and 4 hunters to your raids, that might not be the case.
As Gurthock said, GoA with talents is more than that, plus you can't disregard the near endless mana having a tide-shaman provides for the said 4 hunters.
Wouldn't tide be better on the healers though?
On a side note, I've heard conflicting answers about this: Does DM account for hunter pets in the figure provided?
Healers only get the mana tide benefit. Hunters get a benefit from mana tide AND grace of air. You could make an argument for Tranquil Air benefitting healers, but the vast majority of boss fights do not really ever have healers pulling aggro or ever being in danger of doing so. Shamans from warrior/rogue groups can be rotated into healers groups to drop mana tide anyway, then put back into the DPS group once the tide ends.
If you aren't a goblin, why not?
If you are a goblin you rule
As Gurthock said, GoA with talents is more than that, plus you can't disregard the near endless mana having a tide-shaman provides for the said 4 hunters.
Wouldn't tide be better on the healers though?
On a side note, I've heard conflicting answers about this: Does DM account for hunter pets in the figure provided?
Healers only get the mana tide benefit. Hunters get a benefit from mana tide AND grace of air. You could make an argument for Tranquil Air benefitting healers, but the vast majority of boss fights do not really ever have healers pulling aggro or ever being in danger of doing so. Shamans from warrior/rogue groups can be rotated into healers groups to drop mana tide anyway, then put back into the DPS group once the tide ends.
I wasn't really thinking about TA, rather, why not swap out the hunter grp shaman for tide as well?
With the amount of dmg intake on this fight and no blessing of wisdom healers must be hard pressed for mana.
finally got one from our kill last night. this was a 100-0 no death kill, so it's pretty spot-on in terms of "how much damage can you throw at a stationary target:
Fully raid buffed (STR, mark, Juju power, 1 crit stone, 1 winterwall firewater) and in pure DPS gear (lionheart/titanic over HoER/Bloodsoaked), WF will add a bit over 150 dps (~~180 dps if getting TSA/Agi totem). This scales with gear. Put a shaman with 4 warriors and that's 600 more DPS.
For a max DPS group, put your best DPS hunter with TSA, 2 shamans, and your 2 best geared warriors (or 1 rogue, 1 fury warrior) (WF/Agi/Str totem scale with gear) in a group. With this setup, according to Deathwing's DPS warrior spreadsheet, and my gear, I'd hit ~~650 sustained DPS before execute, and 800 DPS including execute (popping fetish of the sandreaver/deathwish twice during the fight, and recklessness during execute spams will increase it too.)
07/04/06, 2:33 AM
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