poisons

maxpowers · 07/03/06, 2:52 PM

With the rogue talent preview I decided to check which of the poison talents would be worth getting, vile vs improved poisons. To try and keep the post short winded, this is basically what I came up with:

vile vs. improved: vile is a straight 15% increase while improved varys between 50% (instant poisons, no 3 piece bf), and 29% (deadly poisons, 3 piece bf). Add into that the fact that improved poisons will work with crippling, mind numbing, and wounding poisons, improved poisons easily trounces vile poisons in every way, shape and form.

improved poisons vs lethality for combat sword builds: using the combat swords spreadsheet, i found about a 1% increase taking instant poisons over lethality (or about a .6% damage increase per talent point, vs a .4% increase). Thus in theory, improved poisons are better than lethality for a combat swords rogue.

improved poisons vs lethality for combat dagger builds: no big surprise here, combat daggers just get alot more out of lethality, what with the higher crit, overall improved poisons did about 4 dps less than lethality.

As an aside, I hope Bliz sees that vile poisons needs a pretty big buff to stay at least remotely competetive with improved poisons, personally I'd reccomend a change from 3% per point to 10% (or more) per point, and maybe capping it at 3 points instead of 5. IMHO talent choices should come down (at least to some degree) to versatility vs damage, and in this case improved poisons will add more versatility (affecting all poisons instead of just instant and deadly), and doing more damage.

Flubber · 07/03/06, 3:01 PM

Personally, I hate to see what Blizzard can do to PvE NR encounters due to this change. Imagine if Faerlina or Kri had Vile Poisons.

As far as alliance PvE and PvP utility goes, I think you are pretty much spot on.

• Wodin · 07/03/06, 3:02 PM

Well, Vile is more a PvP talent - it makes your poisons burstier and harder to remove(which is rather useful).

Kalman · 07/03/06, 3:12 PM

Harder to remove is nice, but easier to apply is nice too.... I think it's actually a pretty legitimate choice now, with the edge in PvP going to... well, both, actually. Imagine a crippling poison which procs on 45% of your hits, and might take 2-3 casts to get off.

Kalman · 07/03/06, 4:51 PM

Originally Posted by Demi9OD

The only problem I've got with improved poisons is the sheer speed and which you eat a stack. Back when I was seal fate and had 4/5 imp IP and 3/8 BF I would chew through my entire mainhand before the end of an ebonroc kill. On C'Thun these days (with no talent points in imp IP) I reapply during the stage 1 to 2 transition. If I don't my mainhand goes dry near the second weakened phase. I really think all poisons should function like crippling and just do away with the charges, especially with the zone change it would be a real money saver. Mechanically poisons still need to be worked on a bit; ie made like Arcane Shot. There is absolutely no reason poisons should be critting at my spell crit rate for 1.5x damage, it's insulting.

It does, however, make it really amusing to bid on Azuresong Mageblade and say "I need the +crit to spells to make my poisons crit more!"

• sp00n · 07/04/06, 6:44 AM

Does spell critrate really affect, the well, spell critrate of poisons?
+spelldamage doesn't seem to, at least to some rumors I've heard (never testet it for myself).

**edit
BTW, Kalman, I wrote you a PM about a month ago, would be nice if you could take a look at it. ;)

Dias · 07/04/06, 7:05 AM

Originally Posted by sp00n

Does spell critrate really affect, the well, spell critrate of poisons?

Haven't tried any actual spell crit gear, but the Onyxia buff causes Instant Poison to crit, so I assume so.

Originally Posted by Demi9OD

Mechanically poisons still need to be worked on a bit; ie made like Arcane Shot. There is absolutely no reason poisons should be critting at my spell crit rate for 1.5x damage, it's insulting.

Does Arcane Shot use your physical crit rate or something? Would be nice if theres a precedent for that kind of thing.

• sp00n · 07/05/06, 3:34 AM

Can First Aid crit? ;)