Hello, long time troller, first time poster.

Posted to the WoW Warlock forums, however, Im sure Im going to get a lot more solid feedback here then there. That being said, here ya go!

So, one of the biggest attention grabbers on the forums tend to revolve around class changes, more specifically to talent trees and how they change.

This is a good thing. Folks get involved, and give some generlly useful feedback. There are, of course, the typical "OMG (praise/hate)" posts forom other classes, screaming "nerf" and "overpowerd", and "lrn2play". I dont doubt for a moment that this post will get a few of those. Such is the life of forums, no?

Warlocks are broken.

I say this as one of the top DPS'ers in my guild, and a respected PvP'er in my realm. But, we are.

As I see it, we have only a few options come endgame. We can either be glass cannons, meting out a formidable amount of damage, or we can be a damage support role in raids/pvp. I am the former.

I have been many different specs. Ive been conflag. Ive been SL. Im am currently sm/ruin.

Now, to in a sort tie all this into something of cohesion. Warlocks are quickly becoming less and less vaulabe to endgame. While I hear the occasional rumor of warlocks being the end all, be all, I dont see it. More often then not, I hear of warlocks being taken along simply for CoE and SS's. That bringing along more then 3 locks on a raid severly limits what your raid can do, or the speed in which they can do it. And this irks me.

I love the warlock as a class. It was my first class, and Ive been playing it since the talent review of so long ago. Ive tried priests, rogues, hunters, mages, shamans, pallys and a druid. Nothing quite seems to be the right mix, and I always find myself saying "if I was on my warlock...".

Rogues are going to get quite the talent review if what is being said is implimented. And good for them, they are supposed to be "Teh UBAR DPS". But what does that mean to us? One less spot in a raid. How about druids getting a former 31 point talent for free, and on top of that getting swiftmend, an ability that easily makes them rival priests in terms of healing? How about frost mages getting their own version or shadow weaving? Priests getting quite the buff with their talent review? Pallies being able to focus their trees to a fine edge, be it the dreaded (and often mocked) "critadin" or a priest in plate? Shamans also got something of a similar tree refinement. What have we gotten recently? Death coil becoming a useful spell, and then a rather quick semi-nerf to fear.

Warlocks are in need of something. A new breath of vitality, and a focus among our own trees.

Affliction: (level)
This is the "leveling" tree, according to a blue's post. Its not that bad for this purpose really. It has mild functionality for raiding and for PvP, with CoEx, imp lifetap, Siphon, supression, imp corruption and SM. There are other excellent talents that tie it together pretty well, nightfall being a godsend (if it procs at a good moment), and reach giving you a bit of a advantage at range. But why do people spec in affliction for endgame? More often then not for SM. Im not saying there arent some folks that spec it for other reasons, Im saying the vast majority use affliction for SM. Imp drain mana. Honeslty? Doing 150-250 damage over the course of 5 seconds while nabbing a small amount of mana seems pretty weak. Dark pact? Im not impressed, honestly. It seems like a slightly better version of lifetap, and the benefits of DP over lifetap are minor, and only useful in a handful of situations. Why have a near useless 31 point talent? It seems to me that a 31 point talent is one of those things that you should -want-, should lust for, should see where you can sc#@!& points from your precious build to try and get. This one, to me, fails miserably.

Demononlgy: (survive)
Overall, I am fairly impressed with Demonology. It does, however, have its fair share of shortcomings. The thing I dislike most about it is the lower tiers of powers. To me, it just seems that the only things I want are demonic embrace and improved healthstone. Imp succ and imp are nice, sure, but Im not loosing any sleep by not having them. Fel domination is a nice ability to have in a pinch. Fel Stamina? Fairly useless unless you want to go SL. Now look at the tree at this point. Firestone? Imp. Enslave? Unholy power? The only reason I got unholy power was to get Master demonologist. And even then, while I could notice a difference in the melee attacks, it was mostly negligable. Wee, a small boost in pet dps in PvP. SL. DS. This is a awesome ability, but, I for one kinda wish that if Ive spent so many points in demonology, I get to use a -demon-, not be forced into having -25- previous talent points goto waste for a buff that dosent really allow you much leeway or leverage if things go to hell. Sac your imp for +AoE damage at the cost of a decent amount of hp, not only for yourself, but for your party. Sure, you can cast searing pain, or immolate, but... thats it. VW for health is a great option for farming, but once again, your sans a pet. Succ sac is great for doling out DPS. VW sac... well, I dont know too many folks who would waste a shard for a slow mana regen when then can just VW sac and lifetp. I dont have any qualms about MD, its flexable and useful, you can tailor alot of how you want to play with it. Mix it with SL, and its a pretty formidable combinations. SL is a great talent, giving warlocks a lot of leeway in a lot of situations, and the smidgen of +dmg% is a nice benefit. Improved Spellstone... its a nice idea, but I think devs kinda fell short on this one. It has the ability to absorb more spell damage. But, if your so far invested into the demonology tree, spell damage should be the least of your worries more often then not. Now, if the talent also added some spell damage, some crit, and absorbed more spell damage, as well as get bumped down the tree a bit, I bet more folks would use them.

Destruction: (damage)
Overall, I cant really say too much bad about this. My qualms are limited to aftermath, imp firebolt and lash of pain, and general fire aggro for locks. Aftermath gives you a decent chance chance to slow your target down. Eh. It could be nice, but once again, Im not loosing any sleep by not having it. The imp lash and firebolt seem something a bit more aimed towards the demonology tree, in my opinion. As far as aggro goes, we have very few options for spells. Soul Burn, massive fire damage on a timer that requires a shard. Rocken. I love it.Immolate, Cool beans, maybe a bit mana hungry! Conflag (if you spec it)! Similarly cool! Searing pain... ok damage, nice chance to crit, high aggro. We are limited to 3(4 if specced) castable means of fire damage, 2 of which are going to cause a lot of attention in PvE. Give an option to reduce the threat on it perhaps?

Suggestions:
Now, this is where I feel weakest, mostly because I know class balance is a hard thing to sit down and do, and I dont want to make warlocks so blatently overpowered its no fun to play them anymore. Balance issues are one of the things I would have to say I worry most for, so please give helpful feeback, and further suggestions within them.

Affliction:
Move dark pact down the tree, maybe to a step above imp lifetap, perhaps giving it dependancy on having both ranks of imp lifetap. New 31 point "Debilitate" talent increasing the damage of all dots by 50-100% for 30 seconds, make the dots undispellable, and give it a 3-5 minute timer. An afflicion lock that cant have their dots tick are kinda in hot water.

Demonology:
Move SL and Master Demonoligist down 5-10 talent points, and make a -good- summon spell at the 31 point threshold. Summon dreadlord/felguard, something that will be under your control, and wont go hostile after 5 minutes, with the ability to Soul link and have MD attributes, but not DS attributes. Remove DS dependancy upon unholy power, but retain its position within the tree. Firestone add fire resist, and spell stone add +spell dmg, as well as moved down the tree. Mash Unholy power together with imp firebolt and lash of pain, consider adding reduced cooldowns for new summon, and for spell lock/devour magic.

Destruction:
New 2 point talent, dependant on aftermath that gives a 5/10% chance to stun target for 5 seconds instead of daze them. New 2 pont talent that gives 5/10% aggro reduction to destruction spells.

I am open to feedback and constructive criticism, and I know Im going to get some flames for this (Most, I would guess, from the poor mages), but give me ideas, suggestions, and soforth on what you think could be best done to help improve warlocks as a class.

Thank you for taking the time to read that book, and I look forward to your replys.

I agree, instead of giving us a real talent review, just just got a new coat of paint. Granted, the paint was nice while it was new, now its starting to crack and peel, and were kinda just left hanging. Whos to say they wont do the exact same thing come x-pack?

The same was true to a degree with the first warrior review, but Blizz has been on top of minor tweaks to warrior trees for a while. (Clear exception being TM garbage.)

That said, lock's are especially hard to balance because what they can and cannot do changes so wildley with spec and pet use. Locks with a felhunter out can abuse caster classes, but with some other pet, it becomes a dramatically different situation.

Raiding wise, I think the biggest problem we have as a class is that debuff priority still hasn't been finished. I still have to yell at hunters for serpent stinging things, and seeing rupture knock off something is cause for anuerisms.

In the end I think warlocks haven't recieved the fine tuning other classes have gradually seen for two reasons. First, warlocks got the initial review, well before the process was streamlined. And second, it's so complex, a warlock can be a glass cannon, a lower dmg output hp monster, debuff spaming kiter to name a few. The complexity and variety is no small part of why the class is so fun, but it also makes it significantly harder to retool.

Buff Cataclysm to 10-15%, throw in a fire nuke and give us a -threat on all destruction spells and i`ll be happy.

Oh, put something worth while as 31point Affliction while they`re at it.

As much as I'm inclined to agree that Warlock Talents are kind of a mess, our Damage Meters tell me that warlocks are very far from a gimp class. Maybe we're unique, I don't know, but when a warlock leads a Patchwerk DM by a substantial margin I have to scratch my head at the first part of the post. Yes the talents themselves are not great, but the class isn't a marginalized one, just a rare one.

This statement is equally applicable to Hunters, if not moreso than any other post-review class.

Dark pact is far, far from a bad talent. It doesn't scale, which is something they should adress, but then again pets don't scale either :)

The absolute insane efficiency you can get from dark pact is the staple of the build. I can't even begin to count the number of times dark pacting for that last bit of mana saved my ass, not to mention how nice it is on new content where you really can't rely on lifetap for mana regen.

Now the real problem we have is ruin - you can't spec for endgame pve without getting ruin, period. And it's one of very few talents we have that scales.

Its not a bad talent. But a 31 point talent?

Ive tried it, and wasnt really impressed.

I'd really blame any issues on threat. Warlocks are top DPS on Rag and I've seen a top warlock on patchwerk.
PvP wise, at least my perspective as a resto shaman, I have more problems with a warlock than anything other class. Regardless of gear.

Between sac voidwalker and spell-lock you can really tear up most low-dps healers, and chain fear most melee classes. Dont even mention seduce/shadowbolt spam.

Is your spot in raids somewhat negated by mages...maybe. You can argue that with preists/druids/shamans as well. We did aq40 with 6 warlocks, 3mages and I didnt really notice any changes. Give a threat lowering talent and I think warlocks would be at least as good as mages in a PvE environment.

Just my possibly incorrect opinion as a pure healbot.

I'd like to see warlocks get a threat reduction system that's unique and fresh. I think that'd be cool.

Improved Lifetap reducing hate every time you use it?

Maybe have each of the pets modify the warlock's hate in a different way. The imp casts "minor phase shift" on the warlock, reducing threat dealt for X seconds. The succubus casts Subtlety on the warlock, making his next spell cause no threat. The felhunter causes the warlock's spells to cost X% more mana for Y% less threat. Every time the voidwalker hits the mob, the warlock's threat is reduced.


Honestly, I'd like to see both warlocks AND hunters have a set of abilities for the pets that make them synergize much better on raids. The current warlock just-give-us-the-HPs and the hunter send-it-in-until-it-dies mantras are pretty damn boring. Maybe develop some sort of 'combo' system, where the hunter's pet sets a target up for taking extra damage from shots, stings, or whatever.

Was he the same one who had a succubus sacrificed and ressed, constant power infusions, and constant heals for lifetapping and demonic runes, in a fight with few aggro problems? I'm not saying the guy isn't damn good, he must be. But that's not a very realistic situation.

The OP had some great suggestions, far better and more realistic then the "shadow AE! Instant Fear!" type stuff thats always on the bnet boards. I like the demon suggestions, the best ones I've heard. That's the tree I've spent the most time with. They definetly need to consolidate the pet and stone talents, and unlink unholy power from MD.

For some fights I actually prefer the felhunter sacrifice. It saves you alot of time that you would normally waste lifetapping, or where lifetapping might not be the best idea.

One major fix they need to do to help warlocks though, is fixing the debuff slot situation.