A warrior arguing for Malfurion's has got to be the dumbest thing I've ever seen on these forums.

Quit shitting up the thread with such an idiotic argument or I'm going to either: a) close the topic or b) ban you for a week.

Ok, fine, I'm sorry. I was originally just trying to get people's opinions on dps leather since there are some nice pieces out there, even in AQ40. I would appreciate some good dps plate suggestions. Bear in mind, I don't have enough time to the pvp grind. My guild isn't in AQ40 yet, they don't schedule ZG raids anymore, and pugs just don't cut it when it comes to heroism.

well if you have some extra gold lying around then rep yourself up with ZT(zandalar tribe). Then work to get 19 others interest in ZG and all you need is one drop to drop. Looking at your gear the other thing you could really use an upgrade on are probably the boots. chrom drops a pretty nice set I do believe for you. but for chest ZG is your best bet. either your ZG chest or the bloodstained hauberk(mail but that is loads better than leather).

basically you dont need someone to schedule something. Just post you are doing ZG on so and so day of the week and if you wanna go just be on. If you are lacking in a couple spots check with other guilds you may be friendly with and see if they have people in those classes that are free that have interest in it. Be a leader though and start it on your own. There are people that started MC pugs on my server cause their guilds are done with MC but they have stuff they still want out of there.

What exactly do you and your guild do when not raiding?

You don't have 4 friends in guild who will do a 0.5 45 minute run on an off day? Now I can see Valthalak should be a bit harder, but still you can clear to him in 30-40 minutes and zerg him down with the gear you have. Or you can do what any casual has to do. Find some people who are also doing it and who are competent players and spend 2-3 hours one day and do the 45 minute run.

Farm, mostly. I raid MWF from 7 to bed, and then on Saturday and Sunday. Work is the normal 9-5 shit. Offdays are for the gf. So that leaves precious little time, which is usually spent on farming for components and repair bills. I don't blame my guild for not scheduling ZG raids. Nor can I expect them to drop what they had planned on doing and help me.

The only other thing I could see you getting is get a Carapace and get a Chromatic Breastplate made. I don't know if that is more cost intensive on your server then getting coins and bijous to get the Vindicator breastplate though. For blues there is little choice in DPS gear. There is valor and i suppose one could use Darksoul cause of the hit and massive stamina, but it wouldn't give you Str. Still it would be better than Imperial Chestplate.

Oh one more option I thought of. Get a group of 2-3 together and reset BRD over and over. Just do the Arena event. Should take you no more than 5-10 minutes to get there. Hope you get Gorosh. Get his epic mail peice. Now it's equivalent armor to the Bulwark. Instead of 40 str and 22 sta it has 13 str, 14 agi, 13 sta and 2% to melee crit. Heck that piece will almost get you 3% to crit on its own. Now sure it is 50ish ap less, but I think the crit more than makes up for it. It's probably better for you than the Hauberk from ZG as well, only lacking 30ish ap for crit and dodge. We had that piece drop for us once on our old server, on the first time killing the guy too.

Edit: Or just pick up a Breastplate of Might off Golemagg. It has 20 str and 28 stamina on it as well as useful resists and huge armor. It will serve you well for when you need to offtank and as dps gear it at least provides good strength. It will also enhance your survivibility in those Oh Shit moments that might come up.

When you're learning it? Maybe. 3 days for BWL, 2 for MC. We haven't gotten 1 day MC clear down yet, but we're working on it. 2.5 hours to Baron is our best so far.

I would love to get Savage Gladiator Chain. It's pretty much on par with Annihilation for dps. 2.7 crit is amazing. I would love to do the event, but even when I barter with rogues to help them farm the HoJ off emps, I can't get anything in return, as the event falls apart after we kill him. I mean, really, who wants to do the arena event in BRD? People hate BRD enough as it is.

Does everyone hate you or something? You got some shitty friends. Arena event is way easier to get to in BRD then Emps. Emps takes at least an hour to get there, and you need a mage or lock or holy priest to get through the Lyceum. Arena you can be there inside 3 minutes from when you enter the instance. You don't even need a rogue friend. Bring one healer, one generic dps and with your gear you'll slaughter any guy the arena event spawns at you. You could reset the thing 5 times in an hour easily.

We're not a real "strict" guild I guess. We only require 40% raid attendance. I'm frankly surprised we're as far as we are in BWL. We got Chromaggus on only our 5th try, Ebonroc on our first ever, and we got Nef to phase 2 on our third try. That amount of execution just doesn't seem to match up with the amount of laxness we enforce(or don't enforce). But one place it does rub off is non raid times. People would rather work on alts, as long as the components and raid bills are paid for. Yeah, I know, I thought I could spin that into "lets take your alt to BRD and you can help me out here"...people don't even want to go to BRD with their alts. Seriously, you're a new character that just got to 60. Most of the time, are you going to want to go to BRD, with the exception of Ony keying(I've used that one a couple times, the guy didn't drop it)?

If doing pugs of Jailbreak is the price I gotta pay, oh well. Going to make a macro that spams "DON'T START THE QUEST YET".

As a rule of thumb, consider 1 crit to be worth ~20 atkp, 1 agility to be ~1 atkp, and 1 hit ~14 atkp.

That puts the Gladiator Chain at 80 atkp worth, and the ZG chest at 78 atkp, which is about what the malfurions chest is. The Bulwark wastes some itemization points on armor.

I guess I just look at it that a warrior using a leather chest is taking away one of his highest armor pieces he is wearing and warriors best asset is their damage mitigation and survivability. It reminds me of the paladins wearing cloth. Drives me crazy.

Well the Malfurion Bulwark I don't understand, I mainly meant things like the gloves of enforcement/qiraji leahter bindings from the EMPS which are pretty top of the line for fury warriors and sometimes rogues overlook them. Also, the armor thing I always look at it like this.. we bring a good 8 warriors on almost every run and all of them have the gear to tank and gear to dps whether some of their dps gear is leather or not they will pretty much never have to tank on trash [all of them i mean 8 tanks on trash!?] or most of the bosses in aq/bwl/mc don't require that many tanks. Meaning the warriors role now is the purely dps and maximizing that is the name of the game, his armor really means very little considering he is doing the same thing a rogue would do except sometimes better and other times not as well.

I really just don't understand giving loot *Priority for non raiding situations. Sure give them equal oppurtunity as the warrior if they really want to spend the dkp but to limit a warriors ability to bid on a pve item vs a class who won't use it for pve seems wrong to me.

I understand your position my argument is more for those high armor items. gloves and bracers I really am not too worried about(per piece you might lose 250 armor). Maybe it is just me but I think it is foolish to hurt yourself too much in the armor department. Warriors are not suppose to be glass cannons. I have never had a warrior demand a leather item yet but I dont really know how I would respond. I suppose I will have to play it by ear if it ever occurs, but I will never recommend a warrior grabbing them.

The ZG rewards just take rep/primal hakkari piece. No more need for coins/bijous.

The BRD event mail chest is a very low drop rate, but would be unpleasant to farm for.

For blue dps chest, the rank 8 upgraded PvP chest is the best out there.

Warriors have plate options that are useable only by them. When you give your Gloves of Enforcement to your fury warrior and then Gauntlets of Annihilation drop and he takes them, is that efficient? When the Bulwarks get discarded for BPs from Skeram or Conq BP or Thaddius BP or whatever else down the line, is that efficient?

The nonset leather, often designed for druids as can be seen by its high STR and inflated armor value, is generally pretty much the only available option in a given armor slot for a druid, for a long time to come. For all the bitching about feral itemization, it's not like druids have all that many choices for most of their slots. A druid with Boots of the Shadow Flame from Nef is going to be wearing those when he's going feral from now until the expansion.

When deciding priority, we take into account available alternatives. Swords tend to go to rogues who want them first (as do daggers, obviously) because warriors have other alternatives that rogues cannot use. If we give all the Vis'kags to the warriors first, then what do we do when a Deathbringer drops? Give it to a shaman? Have a warrior "upgrade" from Vis'kag? No, we made DB warrior priority and Vis'kag rogue priority. It's not a perfect analogy, but that's how I view this stuff.

Typically my policy with warriors is that you will always have to tank if I tell you you need to. All my warriors have a board in their inventory and I have had an occasion or 2 where I have had to depend on our DPS warriors for tanking. I dont want them with less armor than me.
I also usually only have 6 or 7 warriors max which I have been contemplating changing.

Both guilds i've been in have had huge warrior raid spot rates heh, at least* 7 sometimes more. Also, the less armor then you thing is null because even in 1-2 leather pieces they will still have ALOT more armor then you. I know where your coming from that you have dps warriros tank and said warriors i'm talking about have other sets of gear for tanking specifically it just happens to be a few leather / mail pieces in their dps sets.

I am going back on topic here.
Thanks for the input about DKP.

We seem to be heading towards a zero-sum DKP system for non-class items, and having the classes decide how they want to deal with class-specific items. They can stick to SK list, do random rolls, go Merit...

We are considering the Merit system in the warrior class, with 2 class captains, possibly one tank and one DPS-warrior.
We have about 4 warriors that we consider to be tanks (MT and 3 others) and about 6 warriors who are DPS and tank occasionally or when they have to.

Any experience with the Merit system for class-specific loot ?
Are subjective decisions inevitable ? (wrath pieces to tanks first)
Note that we are currently farming BWL and working on Nefarian. We also have serious plans about AQ40 and beyond.

I would like to hear any issues encountered with a similar system.

Merit system is wonderful under perfect circumstances but it tends to just be a drama magnet. Any time you setup a system where human beings can control how the loot is going to be distributed tends to created mistrust which has been the downfall of many guilds. DKP is wonderful cause it is blind.

Basically if you have any misgivings about your leadership making fair choices you may want to stay away from it.