Kazanir

Background: My guild is currently rebuilding after massive turnover in the past 3 months. We were on Nef, but are now regearing a large number of recruits by farming MC and AQ20/ZG, and plan on starting BWL again in 3-4 weeks once people have much better gear and are more experienced with raiding. Razorgore has never been easy for us and we don't want to make things harder than they need to be. Once we get past Razor the instance is pretty easy for us up to Chrom/Nef.

My question regards staff itemization for healers, primarily druids. Since priests have Benediction and most shaman prefer to use a 1H/Shield this isn't really an issue for them, but a lot of druids (myself included) like to use staves for healing. This is mostly a stylistic preference on my part, but the quality of healing offhands pre-AQ isn't that great anyway (unless I'm missing something) so I don't see a compelling reason to use a 1H/Off-hand as opposed to a good staff.

The issue is this: Our guild's WoW branch leader is a mage, and our raid coordinator a warlock. I became aware of a potential issue arising in the future when our guild leader told me that Will of Arlokk is clearly a better weapon for a druid than Shadow Wing Focus Staff (stats are below.) I'm concerned that since the best staves in BWL/MC are spell damage staves, not pure healing, that healers will get the short end of the stick on staves due to the general attitudes of mages/warlocks toward items with spell damage. Obviously casters need good weapons too, and I'm wondering how guilds deal with the fact that until AQ40/Green Dragons, healer staves are not well differentiated from caster staves. I'll list the relevant items with stats below for some notes, in approximate order of progression.

Will of Arlokk. ZG. 15 Int, 15 Stam, 35 Spi, +46 Heals.

Staff of Dominance. MC. 37 Int, 16 Stam, 14 Spi, +40 Spells/Heals, 1% Crit.

Shadow Wing Focus Staff. BWL. 40 Int, 22 Stam, 17 Spi, 56 Spells/Heals.

Staff of the Ruins. AQ20. 23 Int, 24 Stam, 14 Spi, 60 Spells/Heals, 1% Crit, 1% Hit.

Staff of the Shadow Flame. BWL. 29 Int, 24 Stam, 19 Spi, 84 Spells/Heals, 2% Crit.

Staff of Rampant Growth. Dragons. 16 Int, 12 Stam, 20 NR, 84 Heals, 11 mp5.

After this point the AQ40 itemization improves markedly, and one begins to see healer staves differentiate from caster staves. No druid wants a Blessed Q. Acolyte staff (unless they're a Moonkin) and no caster wants an Augur staff, obviously. But before this point, both groups are in contention for all the spell damage staves between Will of Arlokk and Rampant Growth.

Is there a good way to deal with this? What are some generally accepted priorities, if there are any? Is it generally considered fair for a healer to take one of the big four "caster staves", or am I (as a druid) not looking out for the best interests of the raid here? Opinions, thoughts, etc. Hit me with everything you've got.

'War' is too small a word for what I'm fighting. Like a candle in front of the whole burning Sun. I told you. This is bigger than a war. Now, I am not going to die today. I have other projects, and other options.

You can come with me. I can protect you.

 

Maledict

Our Shadow Wing Focus Staffs have all gone to Druids without exception, as we were never lucky enough to actually kill Kazzak in a guild group on my server. Its not a huge upgrade to the DPS casters, who should have Mageblades or Staves of Dominance, so most wont want to take it either.

The Staff of the Shadowflame should really only ever go to DPS casters. More and more content is tuned for dps gear checks as well as healer & tank gear checks, and it's still one of the best 2 handers around. It has a lot of wasted points for healers, and it is a significant upgrade over anything else your DPS casters can get at that level.

Of course, Druids can also use Lhok surely?

(p.s. I would agree with them that the Will of Arlokk is a much better healer weapon than the Shadow Wing Focus Staff, due to the extremely high spirit on it. But neither is particulary common, so I wouldn't suggest that you restrict people buying those based on one being slightly better than the other).

EDIT : just corrected the staff names... :)

 

Chaotik

Staff of Rampant Growth. Dragons. 16 Int, 12 Stam, 20 NR, 84 Heals, 11 mp5.

Killing ysondre is easier then lucifron , terms of progression you put it after a nef drop.

http://www.afterlifeguild.org

 

Kazanir

This is true, but due to our position on the server in terms of progression (not high at all =P) killing world dragons is basically out of our reach, and would be mostly a matter of insane luck combined with Alliance inaction. The staff is straight up better for healing than all the Nef caster drops, thus it's position on my chart. 11 mp5 plus as much healing as Nef's staff is simply insane.

I assume here you meant Shadow Wing Focus Staff.

This I can agree with, actually even more on the Staff of the Ruins (due to %hit, which is wasted itemization for healing) than on Staff of the Shadowflame. SotSF is a major upgrade from previous options and I don't have a problem with it going to casters as priority in general.

I like Will of Arlokk as a purely regen weapon. If I had one I'd put +Spirit on it and switch it in when I needed to sit and Innervate for 10s or just regen mana. However, in general, healing rotations are old tech, and I'd rather use a weapon with higher base Int and +Heals as my primary, the extra 20 Spi that Will has over the other staves doesn't, in general, make up for it in my opinion. I may be doing bad math on this, if so let me know. Mostly my GL's comment suggested to me that healers will have trouble laying their hands on ANY staff that has +damage on it, hence this post.

'War' is too small a word for what I'm fighting. Like a candle in front of the whole burning Sun. I told you. This is bigger than a war. Now, I am not going to die today. I have other projects, and other options.

You can come with me. I can protect you.

 

Maledict

Re. spirit. By this point all your druid healers have 30% mana regen whilst casting, due to 3 piece Stormrage and the mana regen talent. Makes spirit a lot more valuable for them, especially with fights going on for longer and longer.

Regarding damage staves - you could restrict the Shadow Wing focus staff, but I just don't see the point. Very few DPS casters will be interested in it, as you have Chromaggus and Nefarian just around the corner. In pure damage terms it's only a lsight upgrade over the Staff of Dominance.

I don't think a blanket rule of "no damage staves for healers" is a good idea. Best to look at the overall picture of what you can realistically obtain and then talk amongst yourselves, rather than some strict rule. In the situation you describe, which is very similar to our own, there's been absolutely no aggro over druids getting the Shadow Wing Focus Staff for healing, even if it isn't that good, purely because they don't have many other options.

(Again - is Lhok not an option as well for you guys? )

 

Jo_

You have two good options pre aq.
Lok'amir+the av offhand
OR
Staff of Rampant Growth

That's it.

 

Parappa

WoA is far far better off in the hand of a priest. most of our priests prefer it to benediction. using it just as a innervate staff is a bit of a waste imo (unless all your priests on the kill have it already).

as far as weapon in general goes, i would just go for 1h + offhand.

grind AV rep and get lei of the lifegiver, or do CH quests to get earthcalm orb, and then get jindos hexxer or the new Zulian Scepter of Rites http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=22713 which seems to be way too good considering it seems to drop like candy.

 

Kazanir

I didn't think about this, good point. Once all the druids have 3 Stormrage this does become a lot more significant. A noobish oversight on my part.

Lok'Amir is clearly an awesome option for both druids and shaman, once we start getting Nef down, and that makes Staff of the Shadow Flame much less of a concern, generally, since at that point more options open up anyway. Lok is something that shaman will want too though, so it's not a complete fix (as Staff of Rampant Growth, which yells "HI I'M A DRUID WEAPON", is.)

Some justification for this? Given that at the moment (please read my posts) Lok'Amir and Rampant Growth are both basically unavailable, I'm looking at near term upgrades. I don't want druids running around with blue staves or crappy 1H'er's until we hit Regalia in AQ40 or get a Dragon down by some stroke of luck. Staff of Dominance or Shadow Wing would be a very large upgrade for some of us. I happen to have Mace of Unending Life with Lei of the Livegiver, so I'm stylin until we hit AQ40, but that's not the case for everyone.

'War' is too small a word for what I'm fighting. Like a candle in front of the whole burning Sun. I told you. This is bigger than a war. Now, I am not going to die today. I have other projects, and other options.

You can come with me. I can protect you.

 

Galanna

If you can kill Kazzak, there is also the option of Amberseal Keeper (20 int, 5 resist all, 12mana/5s, 44 dmg and healing). Similar to the Will of Arlokk, but its regen do work while healing.

 

Jo_

My post states two good pre aq weapos. if you are not killing nefarian or outdoor dragons then no you can't get those. teaming up with 1 or 2 guilds would pretty much ensure a few odd dragon kills though..

So if you can't go to bwl either I guess Will of arlok will be the top chooice and stuff like the healer mace (with av offhand) from zg and the crit staff from that big red giant in mc should be some of the other viable options.

 

• Lurchington

http://www.ctmod.net/calculator.ct

is a good resource if you're trying to balance +heal and regen.

I myself try to focus on a balance of mp5, spirit, and +heal, while not worrying about intellect (just the way it's happened thus far). As I get more tier 1, intellect will sort of get thrown in and I want to make sure I'm usable on the longer fights.
link to my main ctprofile.
http://ctprofiles.net/48987

 

Hitogeki

As far as druid's go with those staves, it all depends on spec.
Shadow wing focus is better than will of arlokk if you are hotw spec.
Will of arlokk is debatebly better than Shadow wing focus if you are not.
WoA is nice to have around either way for you can always swap it in when you innervate yourself.

Now as far as Lokamir goes, originally it was the best healing item in the game. However at this point there are quite a few options of the same tier.
In my personal opinion I really see it as something that should be shaman priority. But as far as we have handled it, it is all useable caster priority.

Id like to point out that we never incorporated the 20 man's into our point system. We handle those drops with rolling, and generally main priority.

Anyhow, I would try to work aq into your raiding week, at least Skerem and the trio.
Although ive no idea the state of raiding guilds on your server, im sure one of the ones clearing aq would welcome selling a cleared instance to you to turn in regalia.

the history of our Druid healing weapon priorities are something like
Amberseal Keeper
Staff of Dominance
Aurastone Hammer
Finkles Dredger
Lokamir
Shadow wing focus
Staff of rampant growth
Quiraji Auger Staff
etc..

Sorcerous dagger has gone to some alt druids, I dont recall it ever going to main druids, but well times change.
Fang of the Mystics im also pretty sure went to a alt druid, but as with the other daggers there was no one else around who needed it.

Also on the state of things with your server, if you are on top of things when green dragons spawn, downing ysondre really takes very little effort these days. That is of course if the alliance on your server does not screw with you.

As I see it, the best build for a druid pre full bwl/aq gear is hotw 0/30/21. After that point I would go for a variation of 1/16/34 aka swiftmend.
It is all very gear relevant. as far as stats, Ive always liked +healing and spirit more than the others, spirit is amazing when you innervate yourself or if you have the timing down on heals. Mp5 is also very nice, but I prioritize it right behind spirit (partly why I dislike the tier 3 bracers). Int is nice, but once you hit 6-7k mana it really is not a big deal.

Be considerate to others, or I will bite your torso and give you a disease!

 

Jeht

My guild's first and only Shadow Wing Focus Staff went to a druid.

:(

 

Deris

Arlokk > *.

You'll be keeping it for months to come, just based off the fact of the sheer regen :).

Shadowwing Focus Staff is basically Druid/Shaman loot from what I've seen - the dps casters all have SoD/Mageblade or close equivalents.

 

Torel

A good and obtainable combo is a WoA with +spirit enchant and any of the higher +healing or healing/damage items with +healing. For heal rotations, innervate, or even when you ahve the luxury of using large heals with lots of interupt time inbetween, the WoA is exceptional. When chain casting low-rank HT's, you really want the +healing enchant. SoRR + WoA is the best combo overall IMO for pure healing at your progression level.

If you are really working on rebuilding and gear is a serious issue, farming the 20 mans at an accelerated rate can also yield very good results with lots of capable weapons, very very good ring sets, and the animist/quest reward items. The offensive casters also have some good items there which may reduce competitive pressures for the SoD and such.

 

james

Why just a staff? Mace or Dagger and Offhand ftw. Okay, you won't be able to get +9 Intellect on it (snigger) but the itemisation for these is v. good. Jindo's Hexxer / Lei of the Lifegiver are v. good... but as an alternative, there's Wushoolay's Poker, Zulian Scepter of Rites and Simone's Cultivating Hammer... with Brightly Glowing Stone, Tome of Divine Right and Thaurissan's Royal Scepter worthy substitutes. Some of these are blues but esp. with the ZG stuff, the itemisation is brilliant.

 

hamlet

ignore this

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b3...mai_hime37.gif

 

Oneiros

As a druid, here are my weapons:

Shadow Wing Focus Staff -- I don't think I've ever seen a mage or a warlock actually want one of these. The very first one I saw was going to get disenchanted and i was still using something out of Dire Maul so I took it and slapped 55 healing on it. It's okay until I find something better.

Jin'do's Judgement -- This staff has a lot of wasted stats in that it has dmg/healing rather than just healing and it also has 2% hit, but the 14 mana/5 seconds is invaluable for how easy this staff is to get. I have 20 spirit on this and I switch out for it if I ever run into mana issues.

Ironbark Staff -- Getting exalted with all of the BG's is incredibly easy and this is any healer's ideal PVP staff. You don't have to spend DKP on it and you don't have to fight with anyone for it since you're buying it at a vendor. 30 spell damage on this one.


With all this keep in mind I am Alliance, and paladins can't use staves so I guess there is added competition for Horde with shamans around.


I would like to eventually get a Lok'amir but I'll probably lose it to a paladin (most of our pallys have their full set or near it and have nothing to spend DKP on) or a priest (PVP toy). I'm planning on offhanding Sartura's Might if I ever get the mace.

I believe in Harvey Dent.

 

• Lurchington

Well-known caveat for things like this, but depends on the server. On Mal'Ganis for example, Hordeside queues and lack of Alliance queuing meant perhaps you could do 2 ABs an afternoon, 2 hours of WSG (over 1-3 games depending on turtling) and it wasn't uncommon to be queued 4-6 hours for the only AV. I made the mistake of handing myself the BG exalted items before I came to terms with the queue times, and I was sorely mistaken.

In my opinion the best healing items, in terms of ease of acquisition, have been coming from ZG. With a premiere specialist piece (Will or Arlokk), a very nice off-spec/mp5 staff (Judgement), three tiers of mainhands (Jin'do's Hexxer, Zulian Scepter of Rites, and Wushoolay's Poker) and a good offhand (Arlokk's Hoodoo Stick).

This is completely seperate from the two healing necks, the primalist's set, the Loa Cloak, ZHC, and the rep pieces. I'd argue that ZG has given me greater gains per time spent, than even MC from a pure healing perspective. And certainly more than BG rep grinding.

Keep in mind that I'm down on Prophecy as a whole (gloves the exception), but to people looking to gear out your healer in the quickest amount of time, I can't echo a 3 ZG week nearly enough.

 

• frmorrison

Getting exalted with AV is easy, but the other two not so much. Especially AB, if you didn't play it when it first came out, since then it is not so popular.

I aggre that the newly upgraded ZG healer items are about on par to MC items, and you only need 20 ppl/3 day lockout.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

◊ Shalas

I hit commander before I hit Revered with AB.

ZG stuff isn't just on par with MC stuff, it's better. For priests, the set neck, shoulders, ring set and mar'li's eye (and arguably Will of Arlokk) are all better than anything you can get in MC. In fact, the shoulders are nearly identical to the Transcendence shoulders, and I'm still wearing the rings because we've only had one PEM and one Ring of the Martyr drop.

 

◊ Zoid

The Primalist Set rings are pretty much broken for their level. The set bonus is what makes them so incredibly good. I didn't replace them for a long, long time. I'm guessing the set bonus doesn't factor into the item level calculations. If it was, these would be like ilvl 76 epic quality.

 

oldmandennis

Yeah, I was really happy to get the regen one recently. I don't think set bonuses are ever put into ilvl considerations.

Even with fast queues, AB and WSG are a pretty substantial investment in time. I casualy worked up to Legionnaire (on a PvP server), and held there for a couple of months before losing interest in PvP. I am nowhere near exaulted with those two BG's.