Rage Normalisation - Page 7

Xizorz · 07/18/06, 9:50 AM

Originally Posted by Kalman

Which has been the whole point of this thread.

No other class benefits in this fashion from their gear when dealing damage. Mages, rogues, hunters, warlocks scale their attacks, but their attack rate is fixed (by energy or by cast times, either way). That's the point of this thread, and the problem with the way rage works.

Until you're filling all possible instant cooldowns and all possible on-next-attacks, you can't really claim to be rage capped, and increases in rage generation lead to increased damage which scales upward with gear.

Do realize though, that this quadratic growth really occured when going from blues > MC/BWL geared level players (partially due to spectacular itemization ie Onslaught Girdle).

That growth level ended really, and is no longer possible with Naxx upgrades. Execute phase still scales because more rage can be utilized. But there will come a point in time where 1 backstab matches 4 full rage executes, as the latter doesn't grow in damage with gear.

Erongg · 07/18/06, 10:03 AM

With the level of theory and understanding being displayed here, it's disappointing that there's no clear solution in sight.

Deathwing · 07/18/06, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by suicuique

EDIT: Kiss of the spider dropped last night. And i did not buy it (went to a hunter). Now im kinda regretting that :(
Is it a common drop?

I think kiss of the spider is overated. HoJ, DFT, and Slayer's Crest all come out ahead, even for naxx warrior gear.

• Hamlet · 07/18/06, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by Xizorz

That growth level ended really, and is no longer possible with Naxx upgrades.

But the point is that that growth level did exist, exists in a limited form currently, an has the potential to exist in the future when one of many parameters in the game could be changed. Rather than continually design away the effects of the current Rage system by constraining ability design permanently, the flawed mechanic should be changed.

diospadre · 07/18/06, 1:09 PM

Originally Posted by Erongg

With the level of theory and understanding being displayed here, it's disappointing that there's no clear solution in sight.

All this thread is is one giant argument over what an exponential equation is.

Xizorz · 07/18/06, 1:13 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

Originally Posted by Xizorz

That growth level ended really, and is no longer possible with Naxx upgrades.

But the point is that that growth level did exist, exists in a limited form currently, an has the potential to exist in the future when one of many parameters in the game could be changed. Rather than continually design away the effects of the current Rage system by constraining ability design permanently, the flawed mechanic should be changed.

By those parameters I assume you mean cooldowns/instant attacks?

I wouldn't mind a logarithmic type rage generation system as was suggested earlier, where the 1-1 point is about where a blue geared warrior would be (55ish dps weapon, 900 atkp buffed, 20 crit, for example).

But if rage generation is nerfed we should also get a change in instants/cooldowns. DPS warriors shouldn't have to use heroic strike/hamstring crap.

diospadre · 07/18/06, 1:27 PM

Originally Posted by Xizorz

I wouldn't mind a logarithmic type rage generation system as was suggested earlier, where the 1-1 point is about where a blue geared warrior would be (55ish dps weapon, 900 atkp buffed, 20 crit, for example).

A logarithmic system would fuck arms warriors and do basically nothing to fury warriors.

Kalman · 07/18/06, 1:47 PM

Originally Posted by diospadre

Originally Posted by Erongg

With the level of theory and understanding being displayed here, it's disappointing that there's no clear solution in sight.

All this thread is is one giant argument over what an exponential equation is.

Be fair. We also argued about whether or not warrior damage is linear with gear (it isn't).

Gurg's "average ilevel" idea is probably the most appropriate way to allow warrior rage to still be rage, rather than energy, but reduce the obscene scaling effect item-based progression has on a level-based system.

Quigon · 07/18/06, 2:47 PM

I already posted the tanking solution... the dps end... let the guys who work on faction balance look at that one.

Yes · 07/18/06, 11:22 PM

At 420 white dps after crits you're getting 14 rage/second
Bloodthurst is 5 rage/second. WW is 2.5

Basically you have to cleave or HS (if only slam with a 2.8 speed mainhand allowed offhand swinging!)

Similarly, over 225 white damage dps will mean you will have excess rage.

One of our warriors just picked up servo arm, and I am interested in what kind of fury damage he will put out with that mainhand and TF offhand (If only he was human).

suicuique · 07/19/06, 4:26 AM

Originally Posted by Kalman

... but reduce the obscene scaling effect item-based progression has on a level-based system.

This "obscene scaling effect" is so early in gear progression of DPS warriors, that i dont know how you can reduce it without severely nerfing pre <BWL Warriors in PvP and PvE (non tanking).

But you keep dodging this argument over and over.
I acknowledged that there is a nonlinear scaling goin on early (pre WW/BT/MS being cooldown capped) ... whats so difficult to recognize that this "obscene scaling effect" flattens in a big way after this point? Reiterating it will not help your case. Just LOOK at the abilities breakdown of your local endgame DPS warrior after a full out damage DPS fight.

EDIT:
as an addendum:
For your OH solely to provide all the rage for all your BT/WW/(utility)/HS needs, it would have do upwards of 600DPS on your OH alone (yes thats with dual wield spec and 30% crits included, on a mob with 0 armor).

regards