Phyresis

A system that rewards effort is open to corruption and insane amounts of drama. You should keep the people that give it their all and start looking for new people to replace the subpar performers. Simply hinting that you might do this will do wonders for morale, trust me.

 

Xaxoz

We dont want a system, that rewards dkp completly based on effort. Just a system that has the possibility of giving negative/positive.

etc. we're attempting patchwork with a raid of 40, and there are 3 people that just arent focused, and perform way below expected and continuesly do so. And there are 3 people, who are doing an extra-ordinary performance, motivating people and have done a great effort in preparations.

So the rewardings would be devided in 3 categories:
-below expected performance: Recieves significiantly reduced amount of dkp for the raid.
-majority with average performance: recieves the base amount of dkp depending on encounter.
-oustanding performance: recieves a small amount of bonus dkp, compared to base amount.

And it isent something that would be done in every raid. Only upon repeatable poor/outstanding performances. And also giving a warning prehand, if one is in the dangerzone of dropping down in the "below expected" category, if he keeps going in the same pattern.

 

◊ Kaubel

No.

 

◊ Lord BEEF

I'm sure you've heard the "fifty DKP minus" clip. Do you really want to be that guild?

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Mokoto

You don't want to be those guys, this is a bad idea that will cause drama and morale issues.

My Blog: Nerf This...

 

Xaxoz

We're not talking about dkp punishment, but simply a reducement in the dkp they earned during a raid, if they where obviously slacking, and have done so repeatable times over the last raids.

The guild is lead by compotent, and most of all mature leaders. We wouldnt implent any sort of punishment system, like what a previously poster hinted.

Simply just looking for a solution to our current issue, that dosent involve replacing/kicing people, or expanding the guild as neither of the options is something we want.

 

Kytrarewn

You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

I'd reward those that put in exemplary effort (ie. Once a month attendance reward for the top 10 attenders), rather than punishing those that don't do as well.

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


Jesus don't want me in a sunbeam
Sunbeams are always made on me
Don't expect me to cry, for all the reasons I'm gonna die
Don't ever ask your kick of me.

 

Shik

That IS the definition of DKP punishment.

 

Hamoshin

The only question is if the people slacking will be motivated to improve when they see others getting rewarded for doing well.

Anyway, rather than tossing out DKP penalties, I'd recommend just confronting the slackers and asking them what the deal is. If they don't step it up, then do what Phyresis said and replace 'em.

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Mokoto

I think recruiting people in their classes would be a better solution and slowly weed them out through a process of elimination either they will step their games up or not, either way you avoid having to even fiddle with reducing DKP because the system you propose is purely subjective and not very objective and could be prone to abuse or accusation of well that Officer just does not like me...

My Blog: Nerf This...

 

Shalas

As someone in a guild that has had similar issues in the past...

No.

 

Davey

I think Curse uses some kinda loot system thats based upon performance and something else, u might wanna ask from them.

"This is where the law stops and I start!"

 

Shakkha

wrong thread sorry, please delete this. :(

 

Mem

Don't do it. We do not use a zero sum dkp...but we only award extra dkp either for tactic (time spent learning an encounter up to the first kill), first kill and clearing bosses being understrength (e.g. BWL with 30 players, Anub with 34 on our third kill....didn' think it was doable, but it was :)). Always this extra dkp goes to every attendent. The only time we reduced a players dkp was when she consistently acted against orders of the raidleader, e.g. vanishing after a fankriss wipe or drawing aggro from vael for the 10th time....she left the raid shortly afterwards.

 

Biscuits

Hehe Xaxoz, I had a talk with Elnath about it. It's a shame to hear people slacking.

As said somewhere above, punishment will only cause drama. I remember when Howard got banned from raids by our GL (At that time, 2 new guild leaders since then, hoho) for "pulling" chromaggus, which was alot of fun. The drama was endless and only ended up making the GL look like a total fool. You need to reward those that do well, it increases performance from members that do ok and are most effective on members that do poorly. Try it, it'll work. If it don't, then you got some people that genuinly don't care.

 

Fendryl

First step if people are slacking is to ask them what's up, preferably a class lead or someone that's familiar with their class. If that doesn't solve the issue, start rotating in someone else for their spot, we try to keep our roster numbers just large enough that we have 1 person of each class or role sitting on the bench. If someone's being a problem there's someone more than happy to take their spot. You can either do it immidiately & switch them (more prone to drama) or do it a bit less directly and make the switch for the next few raids.

 

• Arawethion

I understand the desire to do something like that. I run a guild that's made heavily of people who didn't start out as hardcore players looking for the raid game. You can often see the effects on performance--mistakes happen at a pretty high rate even when strategies are understood. But WoW is still an RPG, and any of it can be taught, so all that a player really needs is some dedication. And the success or failure of a given raid day is determined heavily by motivation.

The problem is the degree of subjectivity here. It feels like RP becomes something you're handing out to people, and you will suddenly be personally responsible for anyone's RP woes. That goes against a major tenet of good point systems. And even beyond that, you don't want people to start thinking about their raid performance in the context of possible RP penalties all the time. It's not only not fun; it's demotivating. It's like having a boss who's a clock-watcher (as I write this, of course, from work, but sure I'm more productive overall than I would be in an environment where it cost me a few dollars to check a forum for a few minutes).

All that said, I've considered it for the first time recently--for Dark Glare deaths, but I'm not sure whether I'll actually do it. This doesn't seem as patently unacceptable as other applications, because it's so clear-cut. I can't think of any way a death to Dark Glare can be attributed to somebody else, or really have any mitigating circumstance whatsoever. So it would be a rule that can be applied in an evenhanded way, without being unfair (especially since dodging Dark Glare is very easy). And it serves a purpose. We're trying to learn phase 2, as it's basically our new content now that phase 1 is down, and attempts with people alive are productive. If you die to Dark Glare, then for all intents and purposes, you're not showing up to the important part of the raid.

But I didn't consider doing it when I was frustrated by, say, Blizzard deaths for healers on Emps. Even though it shouldn't really happen, it's a more complex situation; there's a lot more going on in the fight. And for something like DamageMeters performance, trying to tie it into RP is way too draconian.

Read before asking questions:
Moonkin guide/spreadsheet, http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
Resto guide/spreadsheet, http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t88239-r...al_discussion/

 

ninor

Unless it's changed recently they used a dictatorship system, where Net would decide who got the loot.
This is imo the perfect system if you have a raidleader that is 100% objective and attending every raid.
It does however demand alot of micromanagement on behalf of the dictator knowing who wants/needs what.

I don't know how its done now with Furä.

A question for the OP: Why do you want people who repeatedly underperformes in your guild?

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