Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Public Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07/18/06, 11:57 AM   #1
CrazyCarl
Piston Honda
 
Undead Priest
 
Mannoroth
In our case we have BWL on farm (finally) and are up to the Emps in AQ. That's where the huge stumbling block is. We have recently started wandering into Naxx. Luckily most of our better players are attuned so we're able to field decent groups. We killed the Instructor our second night, but here's where it gets sticky.

So we have 2 boot drops from Raz, now obviously we want to get our phat Tier 3 (one of them has gone to one of our MT's so it's very understandable from a personal and guild interest) so we decided to try to farm trash mobs. The problem is we also want to get Anub down, so we currently have our attention severly divided. One night this week we couldn't get a full 40 so we spent hours on trash mobs trying to get up the Abominations (We got the rest). This is no walk in the park and people assuming "all" we had to do was kill trash mobs would have it easy. Not the case.

Compound this with waffling back and forth between the two some nights and you've got a problem. Luckily this week we've finally got BWL on a one night clear and we're able to get Princess down in one evening, but we've had a grand total of TWO attempts on the Twins. Guild opinion is very divided: Some of us want to kill the Emps and go onward and finish AQ, others want to work on Naxx.

Where do ya go from there?

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/18/06, 11:59 AM   #2
Forcena
Glass Joe
 
Murloc Rogue
 
Eldre'Thalas (EU)
Personally, I never like to leave projects unfinished.

What you should probably do is take it to a guild vote. Ultimately, it falls on them to show up and man your raids, so it falls on them to make the decision on where to go.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/18/06, 11:59 AM   #3
TheRealJon
Amazing Racist!
 
TheRealJon's Avatar
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Dunemaul
Do Emps, you will need the coordination needed in Emps to clear most the rest the bosses in the instance.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/18/06, 12:00 PM   #4
Brilliance
Don Flamenco
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Thrall
You should do AQ. The extra gear and experiance will help you in Nax.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/18/06, 12:03 PM   #5
fishwaffle
Von Kaiser
 
Murloc Rogue
 
MalGanis
I would say finish off AQ40. Your raid is going to need that fine tuning on execution from Emps and positioning from C'thun to get very far in Naxx. Trash/Raz farming in Naxx would be good for one night at week though, just for easy nice items.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/18/06, 12:03 PM   #6
Mem
King Hippo
 
Mem's Avatar
 
Orc Shaman
 
Blackrock (EU)
We had the same issue, only that we have killed the emps several times but got stuck on ole big eye. We chose to focus on naxx, but we will return to AQ this week. Our pattern looks like: 1 one week naxx, one week naxx/bwl, one week naxx, one week AQ, rinse repeat. We might modify this according to attendance and progression.
I guess that your guild is also a little bit more casual than the top raiding guilds, so you probably raid only 3-4 days a week. So this might be a solution for you as well.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/18/06, 12:06 PM   #7
 frmorrison
Protector
 
frmorrison's Avatar
 
Ashstorm
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
I agree, the coordination and length of Twin Emps encounter is a good training ground for the Nax further bosses. AQ is more forgiving than Nax, and your group needs the experience from somewhere.

Also you may have some armaments collected, and I am sure the ones with it would want to turn them in.

Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/18/06, 12:06 PM   #8
♦ Praetorian
Mike Tyson
 
Praetorian's Avatar
 
Orc Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Anub'rekhan is easier than the Twin Emps. My advice since you are where you are now?
Take a night or two to learn him. There's a million videos and strats out there. It's not bad at all, and you can kill him. Take a night to finish Echoes of War for your people with t3 tokens -- the Abom trash is intimidating at first, so this will be a bit of an expedition, but it's worth it for the tier 3 pieces.

Take one night out of the week thereafter to kill Anub and Raz -- t3 pieces, especially for your tanks, will really help down the line, and you might get sweet weapons like Iblis and trash drop Servo Arm or Harbinger. But don't do anything else in Naxx until you have C'Thun down.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/18/06, 12:07 PM   #9
probiscus
Bald Bull
 
Human Death Knight
 
<QQ>
Kilrogg
You should try and figure out what's going to lead to the least amount of burnout. For my guild it was attacking Naxx (we stopped with about 5 serious attempts on Emps - which bothered me personally, but so be it). The manner in which we approached AQ40 led to burnout from a number of our *very* core raiders, which is never a good thing.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/18/06, 12:08 PM   #10
CrazyCarl
Piston Honda
 
Undead Priest
 
Mannoroth
Yeah, we've had incredible luck on trash mobs. Our first night we had not one, but TWO Servo arms drop off a trash mob on the way to Raz. Next week? Another one. I like Naxx, I think it's pretty cool. I'm confident in my ability to perform in there, not so much with around 1/4th of the raid :\. The spider is really messing us up with Impales and people not moving where they need to. It took a few tries for our tanks and Hunters to get the kiting down, but they're doing a good job and learning with each wipe. Now the healers need to learn to adjust :)

EDIT: Would you recommend doing Naxx before or after BWL/AQ?

EDIT the second: We divided our attention between Sartura and Nef as well which is why I'm concerned here, because that didn't work out well at all.

Our drops off Raz were actually an Iblis and Wand of the Whispering Dead :)

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/18/06, 12:12 PM   #11
Mem
King Hippo
 
Mem's Avatar
 
Orc Shaman
 
Blackrock (EU)
Originally Posted by Praetorian
Take one night out of the week thereafter to kill Anub and Raz -- t3 pieces, especially for your tanks, will really help down the line, and you might get sweet weapons like Iblis and trash drop Servo Arm or Harbinger. But don't do anything else in Naxx until you have C'Thun down.
Hm, why stop there? At least the grandwidow felt easier for me than cthun because you are not so reliant on every single member of the raid. At cthun one guy can easily ruin the try. Fighting Faerlina is imho less dependent on the skills of every raidmember as long as your dps and healing is sufficient.
Funnily we did not continue to do raz simply because our priests weren't able to cope with MCing the adds, moaning about the dependence on luck and so on...

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/18/06, 12:13 PM   #12
Falcon24
Soda Popinski
 
Goblin Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by CrazyCarl
Our drops off Raz were actually an Iblis and Wand of the Whispering Dead :)
Somewhere, Khazal is crying.

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/18/06, 12:15 PM   #13
probiscus
Bald Bull
 
Human Death Knight
 
<QQ>
Kilrogg
Originally Posted by Praetorian
Take one night out of the week thereafter to kill Anub and Raz -- t3 pieces, especially for your tanks, will really help down the line, and you might get sweet weapons like Iblis and trash drop Servo Arm or Harbinger. But don't do anything else in Naxx until you have C'Thun down].
Ouch. So Razu and Anub are the only two fights in the zone feasible for "working on emps" guilds? Is that a coordination, a DPS thing, or an every thing.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/18/06, 12:18 PM   #14
Copernicus
Bald Bull
 
Copernicus's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Tichondrius
What's your gear like? Is most of the raid in full Tier 2 or are you just out of MC. Most of the AQ40 stuff is side-grades for a guild that's been farming BWL for a long time (except for C'Thun/Ouro). If you still have a lot in pre-BWL gear, then AQ40 is a good place to visit and work on. In that gear level, you can probably only get down Instructor and Anub in Naxx, with GWF and Noth being too dependent on DPS. It's still worth it to go to Naxx and kill those two (and take a side trip to the Aboms to finish the Tier 3 quest) because they drop very good loot.

If your guild is disenchanting 50% or more of the stuff in BWL and AQ40, then you can probably get by with ditching AQ40 and concentrating on Naxx. At that gear level the only stuff that's really being put to good use is the C'Thun and Ouro stuff, and Naxx should be clearable up through Patchwerk (Spider Wing, Noth, Instructor Razuvius, and Heigan).

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/18/06, 12:18 PM   #15
CrazyCarl
Piston Honda
 
Undead Priest
 
Mannoroth
Originally Posted by Mem
Originally Posted by Praetorian
Take one night out of the week thereafter to kill Anub and Raz -- t3 pieces, especially for your tanks, will really help down the line, and you might get sweet weapons like Iblis and trash drop Servo Arm or Harbinger. But don't do anything else in Naxx until you have C'Thun down.
Hm, why stop there? At least the grandwidow felt easier for me than cthun because you are not so reliant on every single member of the raid. At cthun one guy can easily ruin the try. Fighting Faerlina is imho less dependent on the skills of every raidmember as long as your dps and healing is sufficient.
Funnily we did not continue to do raz simply because our priests weren't able to cope with MCing the adds, moaning about the dependence on luck and so on...
We also haven't made it to C'Thun though :) As for the Instructor, it was pretty cool that our main MC'ers had Warlock alts, so they had some experiance micromanaging pets. Thanks to my hunter experiance I'm the backup and thusly have crappy gear eating up bank slots.

:(

Edit the... I give up: We've been on BWL since January and downed Nef sometime in May I believe. Our gear's pretty good. I don't think we've disenchanted any BWL loots yet. We still have some people in OK-Good blues. All of our priests don't have Angelista's Charm yet, so that's caused quite a bit of hub-ub :) We've been exceptionally lucky with Regalia, 4 so far (We had those players borrow another guild's instance for a week). We had two drop last week which is why I was so frustrated that we weren't trying to kill the Emps because now that means to get their weapons they will have to miss out on a week of AQ and then we're down two of our best Mages.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/18/06, 12:22 PM   #16
Copernicus
Bald Bull
 
Copernicus's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by probiscus
Ouch. So Razu and Anub are the only two fights in the zone feasible for "working on emps" guilds? Is that a coordination, a DPS thing, or an every thing.
It's a DPS thing. GWF and Noth both have DPS requirements that there's no way to work around (although you can cheat an extra 30-45 seconds out of GWF).

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/18/06, 12:24 PM   #17
♦ Praetorian
Mike Tyson
 
Praetorian's Avatar
 
Orc Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by probiscus
Originally Posted by Praetorian
Take one night out of the week thereafter to kill Anub and Raz -- t3 pieces, especially for your tanks, will really help down the line, and you might get sweet weapons like Iblis and trash drop Servo Arm or Harbinger. But don't do anything else in Naxx until you have C'Thun down].
Ouch. So Razu and Anub are the only two fights in the zone feasible for "working on emps" guilds? Is that a coordination, a DPS thing, or an every thing.
"Feasible" is a tricky word.

Noth and Faerlina require a certain amount of DPS and a fairly high level of coordination. Patchwerk, of course, is a huge gear check and if your tanks ever die to Vek'nilash, don't even bother looking at Patchwerk. If Anub and Raz are easier than the Twin Emps, I'd say Noth and Faerlina are slightly harder. Now, you can certainly kill them, but you have very little margin for error without buffing up a lot, and I think it would be more rewarding to finish up AQ first, but that's just my opinion. C'Thun is a very fun fight and he drops the best loot in the game this side of Sapphiron and Kel'thuzad, and he's worth the time to get under your belt before you proceed deep into Naxx, in my opinion.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/18/06, 12:26 PM   #18
Morfina
Piston Honda
 
Gnome Death Knight
 
<IT>
Khadgar (EU)
Originally Posted by probiscus
Ouch. So Razu and Anub are the only two fights in the zone feasible for "working on emps" guilds? Is that a coordination, a DPS thing, or an every thing.
Anub and Razu are the two least gear-reliant and coordination-reliant fights in Naxx.

Patchwerk is an obvious no-no for a slew of reasons (Gear and no room for badly coordinated healers - At all).

Noth might be pushing it as the actual level of coordination required is higher than anything before Naxx IMO. And I can't imagine having to do four balconies or something because your DPS is low /wince. What even spawns from fourth balcony, Kel'Thuzad with a nerfstick and a game-over sign?

Grand Widow Faerlina (after Anub'Rekhan) might be an issue because of gear and coordination; Constantly moving out of Rain of Fire, moving Faerlina, OTing 4-6 mobs while sacrificing some periodically, decursing and healing the poison bolt volley which has an initial (noNR) hit of about 1500, et cetera.

I'm with Praetorian on this. Grab Anub on farm status, its an extremely easy fight that doesn't require too much coordination but from a few select people (Mainly the MT and a hunter) and gear-wise can be done very early. That'll improve your gear per week. Then finish up to and including CThun (I'd leave out Ouro/Visc, but thats just me).

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/18/06, 12:26 PM   #19
Gokes
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Trollbane
Aq40 gear helps a lot. The extra DPS stats on Doomcaller, Enigma and Deathdealers makes up for a lot in Naxx. Our top dps casters all are using 3-4 pieces of their AQ40 sets.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/18/06, 12:28 PM   #20
Tuco
Piston Honda
 
Murloc Priest
 
Mal'Ganis
Like Praet says. Kill Anub then do naxx one night a week(really once you get good you could probably do anub/raz in 1.5 hrs or less). Then work on AQ the rest of the week (while doing BWL)

If your guild can't continually field enough for AQ, then you've got some issues with your guild and need to fix what is causing the burnout and recruit some players.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/18/06, 12:29 PM   #21
♦ Praetorian
Mike Tyson
 
Praetorian's Avatar
 
Orc Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Morfina
Noth might be pushing it as the actual level of coordination required is higher than anything before Naxx IMO. And I can't imagine having to do four balconies or something because your DPS is low /wince. What even spawns from fourth balcony, Kel'Thuzad with a nerfstick and a game-over sign?
Anyone know? Now I'm curious.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/18/06, 12:31 PM   #22
Gwaihir
Soda Popinski
 
Gwaihir's Avatar
 
Gwaiihir
Orc Shaman
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Mem
Originally Posted by Praetorian
Take one night out of the week thereafter to kill Anub and Raz -- t3 pieces, especially for your tanks, will really help down the line, and you might get sweet weapons like Iblis and trash drop Servo Arm or Harbinger. But don't do anything else in Naxx until you have C'Thun down.
Hm, why stop there? At least the grandwidow felt easier for me than cthun because you are not so reliant on every single member of the raid. At cthun one guy can easily ruin the try. Fighting Faerlina is imho less dependent on the skills of every raidmember as long as your dps and healing is sufficient.
Funnily we did not continue to do raz simply because our priests weren't able to cope with MCing the adds, moaning about the dependence on luck and so on...
We ended up something like this. Our guild had been sorta idling on C'thun since well before 1.11 came out. we had done stage one quite a few times, but rarely gone beyond 1 ish vulnerabiliity in stage two. When naxx came out we put AQ to rest for a while (well, kept killing up to emps, at least, that part only took one night and still nets enchants armaments/regalia/AQ armor for the people that sitll need it.). Went in to Naxx, killed Anub, Razuvious, and Faerlina straight off (and did the T3 quests). We worked a bit on Maexxna for a while as well (although we didnt manage anything better than 60 something percent, I think.) before going back to AQ40 and putting in some 3-4 days of C'thun attempts. Our first full timer of all c'thun attempts, we ended up nailing him.

Moral of the story, some changing it up can work wonders on a burned out group. Or perhaps some players found some personal improvements from doing the naxx fights, I dunno. Whatever it was, it sent us from rarely lasting one vuln to consistently getting 2+ and then killing him on the second try of our last night on timer.

Whatever you have to do to get it, C'thun is *certainly* worthwhile. Nothing else serves as a better crucible for individually improving your players, and the loot is damned nice in all respects as well.

<Gwaihir> mage time is like booterang
<Gwaihir> AUGH BOOTERANG
<Gwaihir> AUGH MAGE TIME
<Ama> AUGH MAGE TIME
<XI|> AUGH MAGE TIME

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/18/06, 12:36 PM   #23
Copernicus
Bald Bull
 
Copernicus's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Tichondrius
The fourth wave on Noth is just the third wave again.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/18/06, 12:37 PM   #24
Morfina
Piston Honda
 
Gnome Death Knight
 
<IT>
Khadgar (EU)
Originally Posted by Copernicus
The fourth wave on Noth is just the third wave again.
Aw; I liked my Kel'Thuzad idea better. Thanks for the answer; I ended up scouring a bunch of forums trying to find the answer, as I got curious :s

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/18/06, 12:42 PM   #25
Drauk
Bald Bull
 
Drauk's Avatar
 
Drauk
Human Mage
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Morfina
Noth might be pushing it as the actual level of coordination required is higher than anything before Naxx IMO. And I can't imagine having to do four balconies or something because your DPS is low /wince. What even spawns from fourth balcony, Kel'Thuzad with a nerfstick and a game-over sign?
Wow, you can survive 3rd balcony ?

Originally Posted by zeidrich View Post
Women's breasts can be modeled as a cone and measured as V = (Db^2*h*.785)/3 and since breasts can be thought of as an amorphous fluid, you just have to worry about containing the volume of the breast.

Russia Offline
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Public Discussion

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
When is it ok to leave a raiding guild to join a different guild? Molpadia Public Discussion 59 10/19/06 10:08 AM
Naxxramus Testing on PTR Cybernator Public Discussion 1 05/23/06 8:05 AM