No WF change this patch

• Darkmyst · 07/18/06, 1:39 PM

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...tmp=1#blizzard

/em emits a sigh of relief

Falcon24 · 07/18/06, 1:40 PM

hamlet_the_lesser · 07/18/06, 1:41 PM

For those that dont feel like clicking.

Originally Posted by eyonix

I've spoken with the developers and they let me know that they're not satisfied with the impact the windfury totem change is having on current end-game content balance, and plan to undo the change. Please remember that the testing phase of any patch is precisely to test such changes and evaulate their possible impact on the game, whether or not they eventually go into the final release build.

In short, no change to Windfury Totem is planned at this time.

TheRealJon · 07/18/06, 1:43 PM

Thank Allah!

diospadre · 07/18/06, 1:45 PM

I guess I will spec arms.

Falcon24 · 07/18/06, 1:46 PM

Originally Posted by diospadre

I guess I will spec arms.

diospadre to the rescue

But in all seriousness I'm glad developers are listening.

• Navaash · 07/18/06, 1:47 PM

Good we need someone mortal striking Ebonroc every week

Nite_Moogle · 07/18/06, 1:54 PM

Hooray

• frmorrison · 07/18/06, 1:56 PM

It shows that Blizzard listens when given hard evidence/massive whining of an unbalanced nerf.

LodeRunner · 07/18/06, 1:57 PM

This makes me very happy indeed.

I had been panicking as of late and even contemplating... well... picking up an offhand and dual wielding. Don't tell anyone :ssh:

Tzeni · 07/18/06, 2:00 PM

Yay, now we're back to horde raids still doing less damage than alliance raids, but now the difference will be smaller than if the nerf gone through! Yay!

• Darkmyst · 07/18/06, 2:14 PM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

It shows that Blizzard listens when given hard evidence/massive whining of an unbalanced nerf.

For all we know they arrived at it via thier own means. Unless they say one way or the other we'll never know. I may be wrong but I do assume that, despite what I feel is a total lack of feedback (communication) on their part, they are experienced enough developers that they know better than to jsut throw this shit out there and never look at it again assuming that it's going to work in practice just like they envisioned it would in thier heads.

Soul · 07/18/06, 2:20 PM

I still don't understand why they were considering the change in the first place.

It does make me wonder if they lowball us so that when stuff is changed (or even nothing changes), we are happy regardless...

I'm such a conspiracy theorist.

chalon · 07/18/06, 2:23 PM

I still don't understand why they were considering the change in the first place.

The change was being considered probably due to Hamstring + Windfury. But they didn't realize the magnitude of the DPS change it would have especially for Warriors, and to a lesser extent Rogues.

Xizorz · 07/18/06, 2:26 PM

Originally Posted by chalon

I still don't understand why they were considering the change in the first place.

The change was being considered probably due to Hamstring + Windfury. But they didn't realize the magnitude of the DPS change it would have especially for Warriors, and to a lesser extent Rogues.

I don't understand the problem behind this when alliance fury warriors were doing tons of DPS as well.

Mist · 07/18/06, 2:27 PM

So with the change to chain heal, is this a net gain for horde raiding this patch?

GoG · 07/18/06, 2:29 PM

Originally Posted by Xizorz

Originally Posted by chalon

I still don't understand why they were considering the change in the first place.

The change was being considered probably due to Hamstring + Windfury. But they didn't realize the magnitude of the DPS change it would have especially for Warriors, and to a lesser extent Rogues.

I don't understand the problem behind this when alliance fury warriors were doing tons of DPS as well.

Human warriors have an innate bonus due to paladins and the human racial that boosts sword skill.

♦ Praetorian · 07/18/06, 2:30 PM

It's a net nothing. Chain heal has always been buggy in raids. If you cast it on someone in your 5-man group it will not jump to anyone else that isn't also in that same 5-man group. If you cast it on someone outside your 5-man group, it will jump to any injured raid member or pet nearby. The 1.12 change is mainly a bugfix that will mean fewer times I have to think "fuck why did I put myself in the tank's group, so much for that idea" when casting chain heal.

• Darkmyst · 07/18/06, 2:31 PM

Originally Posted by Soul

I still don't understand why they were considering the change in the first place.

It does make me wonder if they lowball us so that when stuff is changed (or even nothing changes), we are happy regardless...

I'm such a conspiracy theorist.

THe reason why is Spamstringing I'm sure. I have no doubt that will be addressed at some point in the future.

As to why it was done the way it was done could be as simple (and as stupid) as this:

Dev1: We have to fix the hamstringing spamming thing. That's abit over the top to allow to continue.
Dev2: Short of adding a cooldown to it there isn't a really easy to code fix.
Dev1: How hard is it to change WF to only proc off normal swings?
Dev2: Not hard.
Dev1: We could try that.
Dev2: I'm not sure how big the impact of that would be and I don't feel like, or have the time to do the math atm.
Dev1: We could do it and jsut see how it works on test then. Isn't that what test is for afterall?
Dev2: Mmmmm yeah, if you say so.
Dev1: Some top end guilds are bound to copy over to get parses to figure out the exact impact. We can just shadow them and get the numbers we need.
Dev2: Ok, why the fuck not. I'll do it and we can see.

Pretty short sighted on the customer service end of things but trust me, shit like that happens every day in the software development world.

Tibor · 07/18/06, 2:33 PM

I don't understand the problem behind this when alliance fury warriors were doing tons of DPS as well.

Blessings are working as intended, whereas Hamfury is almost certainly not. However, leaving Hamfury in place allows them to: a) perform a genuine evaluation of why Horde is underpowered in PvE versus Alliance, when considering "as intended" mechanics; or b) to ignore the problem per SOP.

Glibness aside, it is pretty telling that nothing except CM stonewalling happened over the weekend (when the devs are presumably at home, barbequing), then Monday passes, during which the developers, back at work, evaluate the impact of the change, and Tuesday morning the change is rescinded. The real lesson to be learned is that CM (or Dev->CM) communication is awful. If a CM had said: "Can you guys let us know how significant this nerf is?", I bet a shitload of drama could have been avoided. Then again... considering the quality of the oboards... <_<

arch · 07/18/06, 2:34 PM

Well good for you, Horde raiding was already quite retarded and if this change had gone through it would have been.. a joke.

I still don't agree with the spamstring "technique" though, that's just broken mechanics.

♦ Praetorian · 07/18/06, 2:47 PM

Hamstring-spamming is really something only Arms warriors do. And arms lags behind DW Fury in raid DPS anyway in most situations these days. It's cheesy but it really doesn't break anything.

Dozer · 07/18/06, 2:49 PM

Well I'm not sure to be excited about them actually starting to look at faction raid balance, or to be depressed that they just rolled back their nerf and now have a blank check to just ignore the issue as they have always been doing. Time will tell.

Xizorz · 07/18/06, 2:50 PM

Originally Posted by Bogart

I don't understand the problem behind this when alliance fury warriors were doing tons of DPS as well.

Blessings are working as intended, whereas Hamfury is almost certainly not. However, leaving Hamfury in place allows them to: a) perform a genuine evaluation of why Horde is underpowered in PvE versus Alliance, when considering "as intended" mechanics; or b) to ignore the problem per SOP.

Perhaps. It's sad how horde needs "unintended mechanics" to compete.

Quigon · 07/18/06, 2:51 PM

We talked about this last night in vent - about hamstring spamming. The general consensus is you really wouldn't do it much with fury spec...

Still this change made my day - I wasn't sure how we were gonna drop Gluth and Patchwerk given we're just making it under the timer as it is (and I mean on the timer).

I suppose hoping for judgement equivelancy for hunters/mages is out of the question - but at least they listened to the massive /emo slits that were happening.