Does anyone else feel like Naxx is lacking in the creative design we found in BWL and AQ40, to make everyone more viable? I know as a warlock I can count a lot more reasons why I was desired in BWL. Hunters had the gimmicky-yet useful tranq shot, Nef calls were better to have 5 of each class for, rogues disarmed traps, hunters kited dragonkin ...
From what I've seen and heard about Naxx, it's a little boring almost.
huh? naxx has some of the coolest designs that emphasize different aspects of every class and make everyone stay on their toes. anub has pack kiting for hunters and warriors (and handling adds/moving to avoid locust swarm for other people), instructor has mind control, noth has mass-add management/blink aggro control, heigan has DDR, gluth has kiting and positioning and tranqing, and loatheb requires your entire healing core to re-think their roles entirely. all of the fights are just really well designed (if not amazingly well implemented -hello thaddius!) and challenging in different ways. i can't see how you feel any less useful as a warlock in naxx compared to anywhere else.
True - from a healing and tanking standpoint, it seems much more dynamic. You forgot Thaddius, and charges!
The obvious desire to use every class I guess is what seems lacking. It's pretty easy to show that 2 warlocks is the best number to bring, as it not only optimizes raid DPS, but warlock DPS as well. Hunters 3-5 seem to be in this situation as well.
DOT and rot.
Travian: Phased Weasel, -144 | 61, Damascus.
True - from a healing and tanking standpoint, it seems much more dynamic. You forgot Thaddius, and charges!
The obvious desire to use every class I guess is what seems lacking. It's pretty easy to show that 2 warlocks is the best number to bring, as it not only optimizes raid DPS, but warlock DPS as well. Hunters 3-5 seem to be in this situation as well.
we tend to bring 3 warlocks and 3 hunters, as much because that's how many regular raiders we have in each class as for efficiency's sake. the 3rd warlock is valuable so you have elements/recklessness/shadow up all the time, and additional hunters (should) mean more trueshots and furious howls for your melee.
I hope that's a joke. The only boring fight for me is Maexxna because I really don't do anything special.
From a standpoint of making fun and rewarding fights that aren't overly frustrating - Blizzard has nailed it with Naxx. Of course, technical difficulties make things a bit more irritating, such as massive Thaddius lag. Despite a few weeks of frustration with that, I really enjoy Naxx, in comparison to the utter loathing I feel towards AQ40 (with the exception of C'thun, still the best fight in the game).
...something more like the energy bar just makes more sense. Call it a Focus bar...
I recall bliz commenting that hunters were originally designed with a Focus bar (yeah, it was actually called that). It was used to cast various hunter abilities, and it only went up when the hunter wasn't moving or shooting.
I actually hate how the pet "mechanics" break down at 60. My alt is an hunter, I was mostly BM when I leveled with a pet that could do nearly 100 dps with 1 stun on command, great survivability even against elites, etc. Now I'm raid specced, pet is shitty and the strategy for soloing is different but it's clear that the pet is now becoming an afterthough more and more.
We did a few alt run when I mostly had blue gear in DM, Strat or ubrs and comparing myself to another alt rogue in my guild in blue gear it was impressive how close in damage we were once you added my pet damage in. I mean the game was balanced that way, using blue gear in lvl 60 dungeon so it's perfectly normal. Hunters are the "range" rogues in theory.
But like how mage sucked when they had no way to scale and +spell damage gear wasn't really in game yet, hunter pets will always suck unless there is a mechanic to make them stronger that scale with gear. It could be using a relic type item that you carry that boost them somehow, or special hunter enchants they can put to some gear that affect pets or simply a solution like druids got where for certain hunter specific gear, some kind of pet boost is "free" (like druid get free atk power bonus in feral on certain weapons). It could be what they already have on some armor, +3% dps, armor, whatever to make sure the pet follow.
My personal solution would be to give pets a % bonus stat based on the stat of the hunter. Or just something like 20% of the agi of the hunter go to boost the primary dps stat of pet like strenght.
Without scaling mechanic this was bound to happen. It's really sad that a class with an entire tree for pets only used them as an afterthought in the end game. Where are the demon sacrifice style type of thing warlock get?
So, I don't see Blizzard raising hunter dps by very much (thanks to PvP.) There is already a decent amount of Aimed Shot+Autoshot+Multishot crying. Upping the damage of that combo (or giving hunters another ability they could chain in there) probably isn't going to happen.
So, what about Utility? Here are just some generic ideas I've randomly thought of.
Piercing Arrow: I remember some hunter/ranger mobs using a "Piercing Arrow" ability on me that lowered AC. (Stacking issues with Sunder, FF, EA I'm sure.)
Hunter's Mark: Why does this only affect ranged attack power? Have it also give melee attack power or +spell damage, or even both! (innately, talented, whatever)
Pets: Make pets like they are in EQ2, where they are immune to AE's. They are pretty much a DoT that doesn't take a debuff slot. Anything directly targeted at the pet hits it, but simple damage AE's miss them.
Debuff Stings: Think the idea behind Scorpid Sting, but in a way that actually works. Stings similar to the debuffs of a Brigand in EQ2. I hit a boss with a "Frost Sting" which increases the damage of all frost spells that hit it for the next 12 seconds. Make ones for Frost/Fire/Shadow. (I'd rather see this worked into Hunter's Mark to save debuff slots, but it's an idea.)
The whole weapon mechanics issue - slow will always be better.
that's not QUITE true. slow isn't always better. closer to 3.0 is always better. hunter damage output revolves primarily around one spell - aimed shot (which is coincidentally a talent - go figure). because aimed shot has a 3.0 cast and 6.0 cooldown, a weapon that is as close to 3.0 as possible will give you exactly two autoshots in between aimed shots, and since autoshot damage isn't normalized, you'll get the highest possible attack power contribution. with a slower weapon than 3.4, your attack speed gets hasted to OVER 3.0, which means you're losing part of an aimed shot cooldown every cycle.
Closer to a multiple of 3.0 seconds post-haste, to be precise. Ignoring IAotH/Rapid Fire, 6.8 would be strictly better than 3.4, and so on. You just want a slow as possible with an autoshot never landing during aimed shot.
The whole weapon mechanics issue - slow will always be better.
that's not QUITE true. slow isn't always better. closer to 3.0 is always better. hunter damage output revolves primarily around one spell - aimed shot (which is coincidentally a talent - go figure). because aimed shot has a 3.0 cast and 6.0 cooldown, a weapon that is as close to 3.0 as possible will give you exactly two autoshots in between aimed shots, and since autoshot damage isn't normalized, you'll get the highest possible attack power contribution. with a slower weapon than 3.4, your attack speed gets hasted to OVER 3.0, which means you're losing part of an aimed shot cooldown every cycle.
Closer to a multiple of 3.0 seconds post-haste, to be precise. Ignoring IAotH/Rapid Fire, 6.8 would be strictly better than 3.4, and so on. You just want a slow as possible with an autoshot never landing during aimed shot.
heh. sure. i concede that a 6.8 speed weapon would be better :-P i was more looking at weapon speed ranges that were anything the game will realistically have :-P hell, i'd rather have a 900.0 speed weapon because i'll just instantly kill anything i hit with aimed shot, since it'll still be 3 second cast.
The whole weapon mechanics issue - slow will always be better.
that's not QUITE true. slow isn't always better. closer to 3.0 is always better. hunter damage output revolves primarily around one spell - aimed shot (which is coincidentally a talent - go figure). because aimed shot has a 3.0 cast and 6.0 cooldown, a weapon that is as close to 3.0 as possible will give you exactly two autoshots in between aimed shots, and since autoshot damage isn't normalized, you'll get the highest possible attack power contribution. with a slower weapon than 3.4, your attack speed gets hasted to OVER 3.0, which means you're losing part of an aimed shot cooldown every cycle.
Closer to a multiple of 3.0 seconds post-haste, to be precise. Ignoring IAotH/Rapid Fire, 6.8 would be strictly better than 3.4, and so on. You just want a slow as possible with an autoshot never landing during aimed shot.
3.0 is optimal, because aimed shot takes 3.0 seconds to cast, during which autoshot cools down. Under the current system, 3.0 is the optimal final speed because you essentially get a free autoshot with aimed, which you want to be as large as possible. I can see a 6.0-second shot working, but I doubt blizzard would ever implement something that slow. 4.5 seconds would also work quite nicely with an aimed shot rotation, but again, it's doubtful blizzard would implement it (it would require a 5.175 speed weapon).
A hunter's primary DPS cap is cooldowns, those of aimed shot and multi shot. I suggest that blizzard modify the function of temporary haste effects (rapid fire, hawk proc, etc.) to increase the rate at which short-cooldown abilities, such as aimed shot and multi shot, recharge. This would effectively speed up the entire rotation when such effects are active, rather than speeding up only 1/3 of it (aimed shot cast) and possibly adding an extra autoshot. For example, a 3.0 (post-quiver) attack speed, modified by rapid fire, will be 2.1 seconds. Under the current system, this does not add a third autoshot during the aimed shot cooldown; instead you waste 1.8 seconds of autoshot. If the cooldown was modified by rapid fire, aimed shot would cool down in 4.2 seconds; you would still get two autoshots, but the aimed shot would come right away instead of after 1.8 seconds of wasted time.
Keltan: I really like the Hunter's mark idea, but it might make more sense to give it a +hit to physical and spells buff, say 2% to all attackers (or +1% crit, either would work). As i'm sure Avellyr will point out, his guild has an insanely geared shadow priest, who would love to replace hunter's mark's debuff slot with a SW:P. Adding crit or hit to hunter's mark would allow it to scale and remain a viable debuff compared to +damage-boosted caster dots.
Hunters were the least tested class in Beta, and have always been pretty imbalanced. You can see where our development broke if you compare with warlock's and their pets. A warlock can have their pet out, being a part of their overall performance, or sacrifice it, and still get buffed at raid time.
Since hunter pets are essentially dead weight in so many encounters, blizz initially gave us good solo DPS... no, actually, considering 8 piece GS, they gave us GREAT solo DPS. Now switch to PvP, this same hunter is doing great DPS, and gets to add in the pet for even more solid DPS. Now we're talking overpowered, which was probably becoming obvious to the devs about a year ago as they were developing BWL.
Further, the optimal raid specs for DPS all provide excellent DPS for PvP. Other classes have to make some sacrifices in their talent choices to optimize for one or the other.
So, our raid vs. PvP balance is blown to hell. That's' what's really holding back any upgrades they could give us for our raid DPS role.
Here's a hunter, saying hunter's are overpowered... SS or it didn't happen! :p
So, our raid vs. PvP balance is blown to hell. That's' what's really holding back any upgrades they could give us for our raid DPS role.
that's really not the issue. pets are hardly a huge boost to meaningful PVP dps, since so much of PVP is burst capability and pets are like an annoying dot. there's no conspiracy to keep hunter damage down to prevent them from being overpowered in PVP - there's just a broken mechanic that leads to weapon itemization not having the same effect it does for other physical DPS classes. hunters are far more like mages in that our damage is more reliant on our overall set of gear than our weapon, since we're all about attack power. maximizing our attack power requires adherence to a very narrow band of weapon speeds, and that's all because of aimed shot.
To solve the weapon speed problem, while keeping aimed shot, why don't they make aimed shot's damage, cooldown, mana cost, and casting time all be based on weapon speed. Using the ashjre'thul rotation as a model, the cooldown could be 2.0x (or 2.1x to account for reactiont time/lag) current autoshot speed (adjusted for ALL haste effects, so would include my previous post about modifying the cooldown), the cast time be 1.0x current autoshot, and the damage be around 220% of autoshot. The mana cost would also need to be adjusted by autoshot speed, somewhere around 80x or 90x unmodified autoshot speed (it doesn't really make sense that rapid fire would decrease your shot costs, and permanent (quiver) adjustments can just be factored into the constant).
Speed would only matter now for arrow consumption and a small part of multishot (which they might as well change too).
I'm glad this thread was started. I longed to create it myself but as most of my posts on these forums are lamentations of Hunterdom, I figured I wouldn't tempt Gurgthock's patience.
I've felt marginalized quite a bit after 1.11, particularly in Naxxramas. 1.11 Mages have usurped us in almost all aspects of the game.
1. Mages > Hunters - AE DPS (acceptable)
2. Mages > Hunters - Single Target DPS (unacceptable if 3 is true)
3. Mages > Hunters - Overall Utility
4. Mages <= Hunters - Survivability (see below)
So really, what is the point of bringing my Hunter to Naxxramas? I've already encouraged our guild-leaders to swap out my useless ass on Patchwerk for a Mage/Rogue. I hope Warlocks will forgive me for saying this; but the selfish side of me hopes you guys do not get an aggro-reduction, or certainly one not even close to the "almost-no-chance of pulling aggro" reduction that Mages received. I'd rather not be trounced by you guys either.
Its a tough pill to ask me to swallow as a Hunter, a nearly pure-DPS class (very little utility asides from select gimmicks), losing handily to Mages in almost every encounter in Naxxramas excepting the ones in which they also have to decurse (in which case we lose, though not quite as grotesquely). Why should a Mage ever outdamage a Hunter on single targets, when they completely blow us away on AE/trash DPS, and offer more overall utility? The common answer to this is "survivability," an answer I feel to be very disgenuine. If you aren't pulling aggro, and its not an easy thing for a Mage to do post-1.11, you don't need to be survivable from single-target aggro. If specced for it, Ice Block is a fantastic survivability tool against non-single-target aggro, it buys a Mage time that an FD can't buy against DOTs for example. It also can not be resisted (an issue that is not uncommon for Hunters in AE encounters) Yes, Hunters typically have a larger HP pool, but with Naxx damage being so high, is it that much of an advantage? Ok, yeah, Hunters have mail, but who gives a shit in raiding? What's left then? The gimmicky ability to FD-swap an outfit/item (which isn't even called for in many situations)? The ability to save on repair costs? Le sigh.
Hunter mechanics need an overhaul; frankly, our class mechanics are abysmal. Our mana efficiency is non-existant, and it frustrates me to no end that a physical DPS class was encumbered with such an archaic skill-currency system while our melee counterparts were given systems that are novel. Mages are encumbered with the mana system as well, but they squeeze out every inch of it with their unrivaled efficiency and large mana pools. I wouldn't protest one bit if they scrapped Mana for our mana-starved class and retuned us for something that works well; say Energy? One can dream...
Aimed Shot and weapon speeds are also an issue that needs to be addressed. As mentioned previously, these need to be changed or the continuing focus on ~3.0 speed ranged weapons will always cripple our ability to choose weaponry. I find it sad that I would pass on Huhuran's Stinger because the Smiting xbow is more ideal for the precious DPS cycle. Our primary raiding tree would also be served well by having an overhaul of most of its talents. Our talent revamp did almost nothing to improve the Marksmanship tree. Classes are now getting their core talents for free (Innverate, IAE, Evocation), while Hunters have to spec for Aimed Shot (only complete fools ignore this skill) for example. Personally, the best thing to come of our talent revamp was a mechanic-fix; the unlinking of Aimed Shot and Autoshot.
Another area that begs attention is Hunter itemization; in particular our weaponry. Caster oriented weapons have improved quite a bit, with Blizzard dropping the DPS on said items to increase the stats permissable per ilvl of item. It would be brilliant if Hunters could receive the same treatment. As a PvE-focused Hunter, I'm tired of being outright denied for DPS upgrades or fighting tooth-and-nail for melee weaponry with nice stats because Rogues/Warriors covet them (and rightfully so). Itemize our weaponry the way you itemize caster weaponry, leaving only Hunters who give a damn about PvP to bicker with Warriors/Rogues about getting that "lol Raptor Strike upgrade" weapon. On a positive note, I'm glad that Blizzard has begun to address our mana problems by finally putting mp/5 onto armor that also provide nice DPS stats (ex. T3 gloves). I hope this trend continues.
Onto pets; a sane raiding Hunter (5/31/15) has an absolute joke of a pet. This is upsetting, because our DPS is balanced to include our pet in mind, yet Hunters are asked to give up a portion of their DPS on most encounters because Blizzard seems to have little interest addressing this issue. A multitude of fixes are needed for pets, particularly their lack of scaling. Raid survivability is another area that should be attended to. One idea: Do not allow Pets to take AE damage if they are not the target of the mob. Prevents exploiting but also allows Hunters to reclaim the DPS they are forced to give up on almost every encounter. It would also be nice if Blizzard made pets immune to raid-wiping special abilties across the board. I hate not being able to use my pet against "You are the Bomb" variants (ex. Noth) because of this. Or if Blizzard wishes to turn a blind-eye to pets as they are wont to do, just fucking give us a "synergy skill" akin to Warlock sacrifice and be done with it.
It would also be goddamn dandy of Blizzard to attend to the fact that every other class can get buffed to an extent greater than we can, and have these buffs significantly impact their DPS (caster Flasks, the plethora of melee oriented consumables and class-buffs) while Hunter buffs are few and far between. And for christ's sake, give us Battleshout back, not that we'll see it since DPS Warriors and Rogues get dibs on Shaman because Windfury doesn't help us.
Overall, I sincerely feel the outlook of a PvE Hunter is bleak, and I hope these issues are addressed by Blizzard in the near future.
If hunters can't do good dps in Naxx, then why are players like Elendril getting top 4 dps on Patchwerk, a fight that really isn't suited to their brand of dps? Hunters are competing there on single target dps. Just not a lot of them. Why are some hunters competitive but many are not? I don't know, but upping dps across the board won't work since I expect those hunters who are hitting number 4 right now would go much higher. Sure it would help the ones who are hitting for lower and not maximizing their cycles, but it would lead to some uber dps for those who are min/maxing already.
Well Elendril has been posting alot, so I'll just ask him. What makes your dps on that fight so much better than your avg hunter? Is it gear? Is it skill? I'd like to ask that other hunter from the sustained thread who was also pushing 600 dps. What makes such a big difference? I'm thinking it is because it makes a big difference in min/maxing cycles while any retard mage can sit there and hit frostbolt every 2.5 secs.
If hunters can't do good dps in Naxx, then why are players like Elendril getting top 4 dps on Patchwerk, a fight that really isn't suited to their brand of dps? Hunters are competing there on single target dps. Just not a lot of them. Why are some hunters competitive but many are not? I don't know, but upping dps across the board won't work since I expect those hunters who are hitting number 4 right now would go much higher. Sure it would help the ones who are hitting for lower and not maximizing their cycles, but it would lead to some uber dps for those who are min/maxing already.
Well Elendril has been posting alot, so I'll just ask him. What makes your dps on that fight so much better than your avg hunter? Is it gear? Is it skill? I'd like to ask that other hunter from the sustained thread who was also pushing 600 dps. What makes such a big difference? I'm thinking it is because it makes a big difference in min/maxing cycles while any retard mage can sit there and hit frostbolt every 2.5 secs.
One apparent reason may be that he is an Alliance Hunter, whereas Hunters with the most griping to do tend to be Horde. This is not to say that Elendril isn't well-geared or skilled.
One might also question the skill of his Mage/Rogue guildmates if he's ranking so highly on Patchwerk; a fight by all accounts to be Hunter unfriendly.
If hunters can't do good dps in Naxx, then why are players like Elendril getting top 4 dps on Patchwerk, a fight that really isn't suited to their brand of dps? Hunters are competing there on single target dps. Just not a lot of them. Why are some hunters competitive but many are not? I don't know, but upping dps across the board won't work since I expect those hunters who are hitting number 4 right now would go much higher. Sure it would help the ones who are hitting for lower and not maximizing their cycles, but it would lead to some uber dps for those who are min/maxing already.
Well Elendril has been posting alot, so I'll just ask him. What makes your dps on that fight so much better than your avg hunter? Is it gear? Is it skill? I'd like to ask that other hunter from the sustained thread who was also pushing 600 dps. What makes such a big difference? I'm thinking it is because it makes a big difference in min/maxing cycles while any retard mage can sit there and hit frostbolt every 2.5 secs.
i don't really know why my damage output is so much higher. i have pretty much the best realistically possible PVE gear at that point in the instance (5 strikers, 3 CS, fang/claw, godslayer/exalted ring, DFT/seal of the dawn, ashjre'thul), and i go more or less all-out as far as buffs are concerned. consecrated stones on both weapons (dw'ing), mongoose, mageblood, pots/runes to keep my mana up, and 5 piece strikers giving me 3 rapid fires if the fight goes past 6 minutes. furious howling wolf with mark/bok/bom on him too. i didn't have jom gabbar back then, but stacking that multiple times with rapid fire and itemrack feigning back to seal of the dawn contributes a lot of damage. patchwerk is a unique fight from a hunter perspective in that you just sit there trying to maximize your rotational damage and you're worried about absolutely nothing else, not even feigning off aggro.
it's NOT a hunter friendly fight because a lot of your primary strengths don't matter, but it's not so bad either.
btw, for point of references - my patchwerk DM spot has dropped consistantly recently since pretty much all of our mages have respec'd fire, so rolling ignites bump me down, but i'm generally still in the top 10.
To solve the weapon speed problem, while keeping aimed shot, why don't they make aimed shot's damage, cooldown, mana cost, and casting time all be based on weapon speed. Using the ashjre'thul rotation as a model, the cooldown could be 2.0x (or 2.1x to account for reactiont time/lag) current autoshot speed (adjusted for ALL haste effects, so would include my previous post about modifying the cooldown), the cast time be 1.0x current autoshot, and the damage be around 220% of autoshot. The mana cost would also need to be adjusted by autoshot speed, somewhere around 80x or 90x unmodified autoshot speed (it doesn't really make sense that rapid fire would decrease your shot costs, and permanent (quiver) adjustments can just be factored into the constant).
Speed would only matter now for arrow consumption and a small part of multishot (which they might as well change too).
yes.
normalization is a bandaid let's just face up to that.
The long term solution is in mechanics that you (and I on page 1) have just described.
It needs to be done, otherwise any weapon > 3.4 speed or <3.0 speed might as well just rot.
<Fric> I think the only kind of gay buttsex I'd enjoy on any level would be assraping a smug hipster douchebag (also possibly a roid head and/or fratboy/Jersey Shore cast member)
Just looked over the sustained thread. A horde hunter was the one hitting 600 dps on patch, beaten only by some fire mages. Elendril was 4th on his, surpassed by a couple rogues and a dps warrior. So the thing isn't horde/alliance. It seems to be hunter vs hunter, as hunter dmg seems to vary hugely by the skill of the player.
Lets say you buff hunter dps across the board by 10%. Elendril instead of doing 213 k on Patch is now doing 235k dmg on him. He now is number 2 in his guild's dps for a fight that is basically the antithesis of hunter fights. None of hunter's strengths are tailored to this fight, which is a pure dps test on a stationary target. But if this happened, fights where hunters are ideal such as Grob, Ouro, C'thun, etc they become even more dominant.
I also would not go and say that any guild who is in Naxx and has done patchwerk has a group of players of one class who suck. Now sure there is of course variation in every guild, but I think one can say fairly reasonably that each guild can field one player of each class who is near the top of the lvl for that class. As well there are always other things that make difference between players. For some their connection really stops them from contributing as high dps as their fellow players.
Out of all this stuff we've seen lately about how my class sucks and I feel threatened/useless I think the one who has the the most legit complaint is shamans vs pallies and warlocks in general. I wouldn't say hunters have nearly the same level of weaknesses (that is if they even have any at all really).
Edit: One more thing in using patchwerk as a benchmark for dps. Hunters have no such thing as a flask of supreme power. If they had well I'm sure things would shrink a lot if they had some flask that gave them 300 ranged ap. Comparison of non flasked players would likely lead to much closer numbers across the board.
just to put things into perspective for those claiming hunter damage isn't on par - here's a screenshot of the DMs from a recent ouro kill of ours, a fight in which plays to some of the strengths of a hunter - mobility and durability.
Just looked over the sustained thread. A horde hunter was the one hitting 600 dps on patch, beaten only by some fire mages. Elendril was 4th on his, surpassed by a couple rogues and a dps warrior. So the thing isn't horde/alliance. It seems to be hunter vs hunter, as hunter dmg seems to vary hugely by the skill of the player.
Lets say you buff hunter dps across the board by 10%. Elendril instead of doing 213 k on Patch is now doing 235k dmg on him. He now is number 2 in his guild's dps for a fight that is basically the antithesis of hunter fights. None of hunter's strengths are tailored to this fight, which is a pure dps test on a stationary target. But if this happened, fights where hunters are ideal such as Grob, Ouro, C'thun, etc they become even more dominant.
I also would not go and say that any guild who is in Naxx and has done patchwerk has a group of players of one class who suck. Now sure there is of course variation in every guild, but I think one can say fairly reasonably that each guild can field one player of each class who is near the top of the lvl for that class. As well there are always other things that make difference between players. For some their connection really stops them from contributing as high dps as their fellow players.
Out of all this stuff we've seen lately about how my class sucks and I feel threatened/useless I think the one who has the the most legit complaint is shamans vs pallies and warlocks in general. I wouldn't say hunters have nearly the same level of weaknesses (that is if they even have any at all really).
Edit: One more thing in using patchwerk as a benchmark for dps. Hunters have no such thing as a flask of supreme power. If they had well I'm sure things would shrink a lot if they had some flask that gave them 300 ranged ap. Comparison of non flasked players would likely lead to much closer numbers across the board.
213k on patchwerk isn't that big of a deal...I did that much last week(roughly, perhaps slightly less), but I was around #11 on the DM's. It just shows the other non-hunters in his raid are slacking ;p
If you aren't a goblin, why not?
If you are a goblin you rule
213k on patchwerk isn't that big of a deal...I did that much last week(roughly, perhaps slightly less), but I was around #11 on the DM's. It just shows the other non-hunters in his raid are slacking ;p
QFT. I see similar numbers to Elendril on Ouro, but i'm never higher than #5. There's a difference between being a decent player and an amazing player, and I think that it's more an issue of difference in skill rather than the class' damage potentials that we're seeing on these hunter-favoring DMs.
07/20/06, 3:39 PM
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