I've read Greyswandirs thread from the official US boards, however since then there have been only a few bits of information about this incredible weapon.

Since I got my first arm last saturday I'm interested whether wielding a second one really increases the procc rates as Greyswandir claims. I tried to measure the procrate with procwatch, my offhand is a pugio. After about 5 hours of testing (PVP, farming, raiding) I established a PPM of slightly above 5 procs as well as a very similar proc per hit ratio (I estimate that Procwatch counts MH as well as OH swings). Can anybody confirm this finding?

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...=1#post1369013

That's about as comprehensive a find as I can provide to you.

The 16-20 ppm "reports" honestly do seem very overblown, but who knows? It could be true. It's a gamble though; if they are incorrect, then you just lost a good amount of dkp on a sub-par offhand.

Thx for that link. Still no solid data imho. As you say, gambling on superb proc rates means risking to tak a big hit in terms of dkp :)

This is what one of our rogues tallied up on proc watch after he got his. Hope this helps.

What kind of offhand weapon does he use? Was this tallied only in raids or also in situations where snd is not sustained?

These stats were calculated while farming in EPL i believe for the above stated time. It wasnt in a raid situation. I believe he uses that one mace that drops off the AQ trash for his offhand. He is mace spec. Don't quote me on the offhand though. If i could access CTProfiles from work i could tell you for sure.

Forgive me for being OT - but how does GOA/SOE/FT stack up vs WF/SOE? Would that combo be good sustained damage wise on a combat daggers rogue since their speed is very quick?

Well GoA and SoE = AP so what ever the impact of adding 154 (or ~180 AP talented) is what that part of the equation yields. As for FT on combat dagger rogues - it's probably not worth it since the rogues in question have no +spell DMG gear (assuming +spell DMG gear even applies to the totem version of FT - I'll test that on my shaman the next time I'm on). Even if it does it's not likely to be a winner since the rogue won't have that much +spell dmg and a lot of +spell dmg is a key part of what makes FT so good for shaman.

Regarding the damage question, dual fiery on servos sounds gimmicky.

To FT totem, it should not work with +spell damage (the weapon buff only gets 10%).
The strength of FT totem is it does fire damage, so it goes through armor. I guess if you had weak weapons, the free attack may not be as good as the extra fire damage/Agility.

Got crusader on mine the same evening I looted it.. :(

Haven't seen one drop yet, but when it does, I think I will put fiery on it as a test, or I will talk whoever gets it into putting fiery onto it and see if we can get more data. I can't decide if I want it to drop before an AQR for us or not at this point :/

Hm, I might test this thesis. Setup would be a druid buffing thorns. After that you start a duel and start to get hit by somebody. I unfortunately don't own an item that throws back physical damage as the thorium spike does.

dont forguet essence of the pure flame. Would be fantastic when farming also.

Things like thorns, it could work with. However, I sincerely doubt it works with things like Fiery/Flametongue, as those are weapon damage procs. While the servo arm is an equip effect, it still says 'on hit'. Two damage procs can't trigger each other. A hit happens, a roll determines if flame tongue or servo arm procs. If one of them procs, it does not roll again. Didn't people do this test with the maelstrom card from Darkmoon? It'd be the same thing since that's an equip effect too.

Thorns/nagle ring are a different source of damage that aren't proccing off the hit, so there could be a mechanic mess up there that allows it, but I still doubt it as it's not a 'hit' so it's doubtful it would trigger the 'on hit' part of the proc of the servo arm.

Umm no. "Equip: Chance to discharge electricity causing 100 to 150 Nature damage to your target."

The whole question at hand here is if each source of direct damage to a mob triggers a proc check for the Servo Arm proc.

Edit: Even though ragging on Blizzard's abilities is all the rage lately for all we know maybe they are a bit smarter here than we are giving them credit for. Even though the description doesn't say so, the proc may be coded like the Spinalreaper or Shaman Lightning shield procs such that it can't proc more than once in some given time frame.

That's my thread. I was thinking about posting it on these forums, but decided not to. I have ProcWatch but I can't get it to watch Electric Discharge for some reason. It's definitely not coded so that it cannot proc more than once in a time frame, it procs in rapid succession quite often. I think I saw ED proc off of itself on Firemaw, but I couldn't be sure, maybe my offhand swung at the exact same time and happened to proc it? I got really disheartened after reading what people said in that thread, but I seem to do really well even without sword spec. I'm currently offhanding CTS, though, and as such I should probably pick up an Iblis ASAP. The mystique surrounding the MSA really intrigues me, and I hope we can hash out some actual math for this pretty soon.

Nope. The weapons with Vampire procs usually do, though. So giving Paladins the Corrupted Ashbringer should get another 2-300 damage off each proc.

they tend to fix this quickly. I know that AQ 2h axe used to do this, but it was quickly fixed in one of the previous patches to the stated proc damage. Supposedly the Vendorstrike remains unfixed in this regard.

We have a rogue in our guild with 2 MSRs, I'll ask him to install procwatch tonight and see what kind of numbers he gets.

Just rememberd the rogue who did the procwatch i posted has a Sand Polished Hammer for his offhand.

It would be really great if someone with this weapon would find out the actual proc per minute chance using proc watch. The flaw with that mod is in what it counts: white hits and procs. When the proc is happening on yellow attacks it inflates the proc rate because those attacks are not counted.

I would like to see a test where someone equips MSA MH and no off hand and just melee's a mob for 10 or 20 minutes (the servants in blasted lands work pretty good for this and if you can dual box a healer is very easy).

I'd also like to see someone have a non-MSA MH with MSA off hand and test to see if it will still proc of yellow hits (which i believe it should based on the spell group it in on thottbot).

Based on an estimated 4ppm rate (2.8*4*100/60 = 18.6% proc chance) this weapon could be adding around 25 or 26 DPS from the proc alone for a fury warrior. I based 4ppm on the fact that crusader is 1 ppm and i get roughly twice that when im grinding using all my special attacks.

With a 2.8s weapon my average weapon speed with my current gear is 2.41s, which translates into 25 hits in a minute. Factor in 10 BTs and 6 WWs and an offhand (assuming the same speed) and you end up with 66 attacks a minute or 1.1 attacks/second. 1.1*0.186*125 ~ 25.6DPS.

Of course I'm ignoring miss/dodge/parry etc

Ok, my mistake. It may not say it, but I believe it's still determined at that point. I recall someone doing testing like this when maelstrom card came out, figuring out the 'roll' of determing if something procs. For a melee hit, with a weapon proc, it has to check that the specific weapon hit. Then it rolls to see if it procs, if you have fiery on a weapon with a damage proc, they are both rolled and if they both roll 'yes', one of them rolls higher and goes, the other is cancelled out. I would only assume this is to stop possible 'instant kill' combos with things like windfury/thrash blade/sword spec and high proc rate damage effects. While it might be a .001% chance that you'd get a hit, proc fiery, which would proc windfury, which would proc sword spec, which would proc trash blade, which would proc fiery etc.. It'd still be a random instant pvp kill every so often, and pretty cheesy. The bitching from people getting killed this way would be crazy. Look at how many alliance bitch about a shaman one-shotting them just off crit/windfury proc crit/ etc.. combos.

With an 'equip' effect, it can get around the imposed limitation because it rolls it separately, but still not allow instant kill combos, since none of the other effects can proc off that effect, all of them having a 'on hit' or similar triggered event. Sometimes, the designer may want an item that procs a lot, but if the effect is inherent to the weapon and you put fiery/lifestealing on it, your actually nerfing your dps, which an enchant should never do.

If things like thorns effect servo arm, I'd be extremely surprised, as it would be completely illogical based on previous information regarding how procs are determined. Not saying it's not possible, but I would imagine it's a bug if it does. You could theoretically get instant kill combos simply off Electric Discharge chain proccing off itself with two servo arms if there is no 'on hit' limitation in the formula. Each proc would be a source of damage that could trigger the proc again.

However, it's entirely possible that having two Servo arms will add and multiply the proc rate rather then just add or multiply it, depending on what formula they are using.

Let's say one servo arm has a 5 proc per minute rating. With a 2.8spd, that would give it roughly a 20% (21.4.. but I'm rounding for easy math) chance to proc. Add in Slice n Dice and special attacks and let's say you start seeing 10 ppm. Add in a second servo arm on the offhand, and it again has a 5 ppm rating for white hits on the offhand hits. BUT, your also getting the chance for the effect from the mainhand, so you get a 20% x 20% = 30% chance for each white hit from either hand to proc it, which would be 15ppm. Now, you also get the multiplication from your yellow attacks and SnD which would be another 5ppm, equaling 20ppm total. This is how you would think the procs would stack, additively. If your getting 10ppm from one, 20ppm from two would be fine.

However, it appears that having two of them may give you two 'rolls' because you have two of the effects. So, now on a white hit, you get a 20% chance to proc. If it rolls no, it rolls again, giving you another 20% chance to proc. The odds that you'd roll no two times consecutively when you have a 20% chance on each roll to get a yes, is only 60%, giving you a 40% chance to proc on EACH hit, as your getting two rolls for each hit.

The few times I've seen someone with duel servo arms post their proc rates, it's always followed a ratio supporting this formula. They may have 5 ppm with one, mainhand or offhand, and then have something like 15 ppm with two. Logic would indicate it would just add to 10 unless they are adding and multiplying each other in some way.