Surviving Hateful Strike

Malan · 07/23/06, 12:01 AM

Gave our first real attempts at Patchwerk today but we're having a lot of problems even surviving past about 20 seconds of "tanking" to really see if we've got the DPS to pull the fight off.

1. Our main tank doesn't always seem to be the "main tank" when the pull occurs. He's shooting Patch from across the slime and pulling him over, and then a few seconds later gets a HS and dies.

2. Some of our OTs who should be the HS sponges are NOT being primed for the HS, and just stand around not getting hit while some of the DPS warriors and rogues start taking the HS.

Most of our warriors are sitting at about 9400-9700 HP fully buffed (with flasks) and have around ~68% damage mitigation from armor. They're getting hit from anywhere from 8k-9.9k HS and getting one shotted.

Are issues #1 and #2 something we're doing wrong? Is our gearing for the warriors not at the optimal level right now? They're all wearing full Tier2 and have as many buffs as we can give them. (None have any of the T3 yet though do to our bidding system) Also, how do most of you do the pull to draw him in?

◊ Praetorian · 07/23/06, 12:14 AM

For starters, make about 100 greater stoneshield potions. Have everyone drink them like water.

Malan · 07/23/06, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by Praetorian

For starters, make about 100 greater stoneshield potions. Have everyone drink them like water.

Yah sorry should have specified some of this a bit more. For the "wipe fest" attempts we've got all the standard horde buffs on the tanks, plus flasks, bloodpact, potion of fortitude, rumsey rum, dirge's kickin chops, and stoneshield pots. All 4 of the MT and OTs have lifegiving gem, last stand... etc.

Mokoto · 07/23/06, 12:25 AM

Originally Posted by Malan

Originally Posted by Praetorian

For starters, make about 100 greater stoneshield potions. Have everyone drink them like water.

Yah sorry should have specified some of this a bit more. For the "wipe fest" attempts we've got all the standard horde buffs on the tanks, plus flasks, bloodpact, potion of fortitude, rumsey rum, dirge's kickin chops, and stoneshield pots. All 4 of the MT and OTs have lifegiving gem, last stand... etc.

Instead of this bidding system, you should get the Tanks and Melee DPS geared with Tier 3

◊ Praetorian · 07/23/06, 12:27 AM

Uh, there's no way those numbers add up then. A "tier 2" tank with stoneshield, sup def, and all the works cannot get one-shotted by HS.... Do they have t2 shields, or Drillborer?

Wait, do they have Toughness?

Malan · 07/23/06, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by Mokoto

Instead of this bidding system, you should get the Tanks and Melee DPS geared with Tier 3

Yah I'm an advocate of changing this, but its not exactly the issue I'd like to focus on. I'm more interested in finding out why our primary HS tanks are not being primed with it. We tried a few variations of having them start a few yards behind the MT, and some tries with them standing right on top of the MT. Same problems popped up - some of the tanks just get completely ignored on the HS spam.

Malan · 07/23/06, 12:33 AM

8/8 Wrath, the blessed qiraji bulwark, c'thun tanking nekclace, exalted Brood ring, styleens scarab, cryptfiend cloak... this is one of our best geared tanks and he got one shotted in one of the attempts by a HS.

◊ Praetorian · 07/23/06, 12:36 AM

Originally Posted by Malan

8/8 Wrath, the blessed qiraji bulwark, c'thun tanking nekclace, exalted Brood ring, styleens scarab, cryptfiend cloak... this is one of our best geared tanks and he got one shotted in one of the attempts by a HS.

That's just not possible. Either he was in the wrong stance, forgot an important piece of gear or two, didn't have the potion in effect, etc.

You said yourself they have 68% mitigation with everything up. 29900 is the max HS can do. 29900 * 0.32 = 9568 * 0.9 = 8611 in defensive stance

Malan · 07/23/06, 12:42 AM

Yah I looked at the HS ability on thottbot and saw the same thing and was pretty confused, my shaman has something like 50% reduction and I got hit for a 16k HS on our first wipe. So... not sure wtf is going on with that. I personally checked my combat log after the first couple attempts and saw tanks getting hit for damn near 10k and they said their armor tooltip on the char sheet said anywhere from 63%-68% mitigation.

I did the math too at the start of the fight, and we thought we were set, so we're at a loss as to whats going on here.

Tzeni · 07/23/06, 12:42 AM

You should probably have more than 68% mitigation in full T2 with all the buffs you described.

EDIT: Or maybe not, that may be alliance tanks I'm thinking of.

◊ Praetorian · 07/23/06, 12:44 AM

Originally Posted by Malan

63%-68% mitigation

63% is VERY different from 68. 63 means you die.

29900 * 0.37 = 11063 * 0.9 = 9957

Malan · 07/23/06, 12:45 AM

Originally Posted by Praetorian

Originally Posted by Malan

63%-68% mitigation

63% is VERY different from 68. 63 means you die.

29900 * 0.37 = 11063 * 0.9 = 9957

Yessir. Thats the lower end of our tanks though. The higher end was 68-69% mitigation.

Tzeni · 07/23/06, 12:45 AM

Originally Posted by Malan

Yah I looked at the HS ability on thottbot and saw the same thing and was pretty confused, my shaman has something like 50% reduction and I got hit for a 16k HS on our first wipe. So... not sure wtf is going on with that. I personally checked my combat log after the first couple attempts and saw tanks getting hit for damn near 10k and they said their armor tooltip on the char sheet said anywhere from 63%-68% mitigation.

I did the math too at the start of the fight, and we thought we were set, so we're at a loss as to whats going on here.

63% mitigation gets you to 9956 max HS.

So you said 8k-9.9k HS, and you said 63%-68% armor mitigation. The numbers seem fine, you just don't meet the gear check at 63%, and at 68% your healers should step up and heal it.

◊ chalon · 07/23/06, 12:47 AM

63% is pretty damn different than 68% for starters. 29900 * 0.37 = 9956.7. So 63% is not cutting it.

EDIT: Bah I got beat 2x! :P

• Navaash · 07/23/06, 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by Malan

Yessir. Thats the lower end of our tanks though. The higher end was 68-69% mitigation.

You say this with the implication that the 68-69% mitigation tanks are getting oneshotted.

◊ chalon · 07/23/06, 12:49 AM

To answer your other questions. If your MT gets hit by hateful strike, it means that the OTs weren't close enough to Patchwerk (Hateful Strike has a 5yd range). If your OTs aren't getting primed, again it means they aren't close enough to Patchwerk on engage, and/or someone else is too close to him on engage.

Tzeni · 07/23/06, 12:50 AM

Malan, basically the one tank you described is NOT getting one shotted by HS, its just not possible. If that's what the healers are telling you, well they're wrong. The others dont' meet the gear check.

Malan · 07/23/06, 1:09 AM

Originally Posted by chalon

To answer your other questions. If your MT gets hit by hateful strike, it means that the OTs weren't close enough to Patchwerk (Hateful Strike has a 5yd range). If your OTs aren't getting primed, again it means they aren't close enough to Patchwerk on engage, and/or someone else is too close to him on engage.

Sounds reasonable. I definitely saw at least one tank pretty far back compared to the others. We'll test this out, and will have stoneshields on every tank this time instead of just 2 of them.

Cali · 07/23/06, 1:27 AM

try get a priest/shaman with inspiration/incestral fortitude spam rank 1 PoH/HW before you engage to get it up on tanks. 25% more armour on the pull make its a shed load easier on healers and gives them a chance to react to the first HS spamfest that patchwerk deals out.

EJforumsaccount · 07/23/06, 1:44 AM

Originally Posted by Cali

try get a priest/shaman with inspiration/incestral fortitude spam rank 1 PoH/HW before you engage to get it up on tanks. 25% more armour on the pull make its a shed load easier on healers and gives them a chance to react to the first HS spamfest that patchwerk deals out.

Incestral fortitude hey.

Cali · 07/23/06, 2:03 AM

bring on TBC for pve balance!
I know its off topic but once both side are balanced and only have racials to whine about I believe PvE encounters to be alot more interesting and imaginative due to the fact they dont have to think about the consequences of a single encounter due to both sides having the same abilities

citsispilos · 07/23/06, 2:09 AM

Originally Posted by Cali

bring on TBC for pve balance!
I know its off topic but once both side are balanced and only have racials to whine about I believe PvE encounters to be alot more interesting and imaginative due to the fact they dont have to think about the consequences of a single encounter due to both sides having the same abilities

Going to be interesting to see which works out best:

5% health on Cow-tanks, 1% dodge on fairy tanks, or the longshot Wotf/Stoneform racials of UD/Dwarves.

Cali · 07/23/06, 2:16 AM

Poor gnomes get off the worst seeing as we already have blessing of freedom.

Lord Log wil not be pleased :P.

Anyway on your OT's with full tier 2 and a chrom shield and full buffs I dont see how you are getting 1 shot.
While it may seem a bit crazy, we put our greatest mitigation warrior as the Mt, this is to basically cut healing down to 1/2 on the MT and everything else on the OT's.

ZG enchants are so underrated its unbelieveable, minimal effort and for a tank its a huge amount of mitigation.

Savos · 07/23/06, 2:23 AM

Shield Block for an extra ~130 I'd hope? Or does that count as a "failed' Hateful Strike?

Anglakel · 07/23/06, 2:23 AM

8/8 Wrath seems less than ideal for this encounter. Conqueror's armor has more AC by a decent margin. But I have no experience with the fight, and I'm not exactly sure if you get to pick the MT (the one you want to have +defense gear) every time or if patchwerk does.