quoting for massively freudian typo

My knowledge of warriors is not detailed, but the tooltip mitigation % is "against a level 60 attacker." How does mitigation scale to a Level 63 mob? Or does AC/mitigation simply not scale?

Bah, dbl post. Erase plz.

I have not done Patchwerk yet, but I think I might tell you why you see this difference in mitigation number from Armor and the actual HS damage.

Your character screen shows the mitigation for a Level 60 Mob. However bosses are classified as level 63, so you actually mitigate less than it says on the character screen.

I do not know the exact number you mitigate less, but I am guessing 1-2% atleast.

EDIT: Looked up the numbers:

75% DR against Level 60 mobs: 16 500
75% DR against Level 63 mobs: 17 265

I've just read about the encounter but it sounds very good with a druid OT to me. Guess many have tried it (use it?) so I guess you can say how it works. Massive amounts of armor together with HotW sounds great to me at least :)

You forgot fear-ward....

What sort of % mitigation can you achieve fully buffed? I don't know the armor vs mitigation formula so I am unsure of what OMG 12K UNBUFFED really means. In the end, defensive stance provides a nice boost to the mitigation, along with sheild block being able to reduce the amount by a flat amount every time. And of course, lack of Pawrry.

If you could acheive say, 80% mitigation

29900 x .20 = 5980, how does that compare to the relative max hp of a very well geared feral druid?

Think you'll be closer to 75% or 70% to get enough stamina. 9000hp with normal buffs as a feral tank is not hard, add another 1500 from flask and misc and then we're talking.

Edit: Made a doable setup for a feral tank: http://ctprofiles.net/58666 (alternative profiles -> tanking test)

I know I was sitting at around 73% mitigation, (fully buffed, with inspiration up), that being said, I don't think a druid with under 75% mitigation would be able to do better than a warrior. Viable? Yes, Optimal? No.

A fully buffed and flasked tauren druid can get 16,326 armor, 17.2 dodge and 10,871 HP (18,326 armor if he pops stoneshield, going above the 75% mitigation cap on a l63)
A fully buffed and flasked night-elf druid can get 17,296 armor, 19.9 dodge and 10,983 HP (evil paladin buffs, 19,296 armor if he pops stoneshield, going above the 75% mitigation cap on a l63)

This is assuming you have a Druid with thick hide, heart of the wild and the ideal tanking gear.

Thats pretty impressive, I find it interesting that while I've known it all along and never really thought about it, as you push your armor values to the ceiling, defensive stance bonus means less and less, only if it was additive :()

Also - Didn't know about the 75% mitigation cap, does this cap apply before or after defensive stance bonus?

As for the OP, have your MT pull then run in to the 3 OT's. Make sure all 3 OT's get a HS, then and only then move the DPS in. So much for the abbreviations :)

Make sure you gulp down Stoneshield like crazy. I have been one-shot with my lesser gear back then for 9.8k when the potion was on cooldown. Slap your healers, they NEVER stop casting heals, they just stop and recast if it isn't necessary at the time. Max consumables as well. Grogs from Dire Maul or find some Rumsy Rums on the AH. Fortitude pots (the 120 hp ones), Chimaerok Chops, Greater Agility Pots, Elixirs of Giant Strength, you can prolly think of a few others in case I missed them. I've been told it's a fun fight for the DPS. I'm an off-tank tho, yawn :(

As an offtank, wearing some conqueror's pieces (especially the chest) is actually a good idea once you've made it longer into the fight and want to maximize your mitigation/avoidance.

Here's how +def affects HS avoidance:
+1 = +0.04% dodge
+1 = +0.04% parry
+1 = +0.04% chance of being missed
HS cant crit so

1 point of defense skill is equal to 0.12% HS avoidance.


Helm of Wrath (ZG Enchant)
AC: 696
AC (Toughness): 766
Total avoidance: 2.16%

Conqueror's Helm (ZG Enchant)
AC: 739 + 36 from agility = 775
AC (Toughness) = 813 + 36 = 849
Total avoidance: 1.32% (def) + 0.9% (agi) = 2.22%

--

Breastplate of Wrath
AC: 857
AC (Toughness): 943
Total avoidance: 1.32%

Conqueror's Breastplate
AC: 1033
AC (Toughness) = 1132
Total avoidance: 1.92%

Another thing to note is that you should stack your better healers (Best mana/mana regen/armor buff talent) on OT1 and gradually down to OT3 (or 4 depending on your strat). OT 1 will be taking more HS's due to the nature of the fight and having healers keeping that armor buff constantly up on him is a very good idea.

If your MT is taking HS's you are screwing up the pull. That or someone else is getting above your MT and he's not really MT'ing at all. Avoidance in this fight only goes so far because once you are targetted for a HS he will spam it till it hits you. This means avoidance buys you time for a heal to land, but not very much.

Are you sure Defense will affect Miss rate? AFAIK, it doesn't. Defense affects:

+1 = +0.04% dodge
+1 = +0.04% parry
+1 = +0.04% block
+1 = +0.04% less chance to get critted

The latter two points do not matter if HS can't crit and shield block is always up though.

Conqs BP has 1033 AC? Thats news to me. *edit wasn't factoring in the agi on it.

AC: 1033 - 48 from agi = 985
http://www.thottbot.com/?i=52866

What sort of base health pool as a warrior do you need to survive a Hateful Strike (before you add in Flasks/food/etc)?

I made up this profile to see how you would go about it: http://ctprofiles.net/861684 (AQ40 setup) seeing if a ~6500 base health would be enough with a ton of armor.

You lose quite a bit of stamina going to Conquerors from Wrath, but the armor gains are gigantic.

Edit again: Changed up a few things and made a more effective profile I think. Conqueror's stuff is a great starting point for this, but there are a few nice upgrades over other items. Boots of Unwavering Will are amazing and such pre-Naxx :)

Druid tanks seem ideal - very high HP, very high armor. Threat generation isn't a big issue, nor are dodge/parry/defense very important since he spams HS if you avoid it and it can't crit or crush. The warriors that might normally tank can instead do as much DPS as possible because they're not threat limited. Doesn't the fight seem to be designed for druid OTs?

Of course if you've been sharding your feral druid loot and none of your druids are feral spec'ed, using this strategy is probably not wise. Else it seems like the best way to go.

As a disclaimer, I've never done this fight.

he spams hateful strike PERIOD. if you dodge or parry, he'll keep HS'ing you, but each will have the normal cooldown time. better dodge + parry + miss = warrior tanks are better. their overall mitigation is just better.

I dont see it being that much better, I know I personally can run about 25-28% dodge in bear. Granted im somewhat ignorant as to what wrath +tanks have in this regard with a combo of dodge/parry, but I can definately see the higher dps threshold being significant.
also : WTB: Pawwry.

EDIT: Heres my loadout: http://ctprofiles.net/2661613.

Thats Dodge: 23.28% base, plus Elixir of Mongoose to put my agi at 313, adding 1.25 dodge taking it to 24.53%.
Then kings for 10% on top of that, for 31 extra agi, giving me 1.55 dodge, taking it to 26.08%.

My health fully buffed under that profile is 11623. This is flask + imp/fort/mark/fortpot/chops

My armor is 13409 before buffs and agility in bear.
+688 (344 Agi)
+385 (Imp mark)
+735 (Devotion)
+450 (Greater Armor pot)
-------
15667 armor before Stoneshield. - With inspiration this would be 19583.75

17667 after Stoneshield - just over the cap of 17325 vs 63. - with inspiration this would be 22083.75
(Note that the armor is hard capped at 75%. )

So, a well geared bear tank brings 11623 life, 26.08% dodge, and 17667 armor.

29990 x .25 = Hitting top end for 7497.5
22100 x .25 = Hitting low end for 5525. (x 2 = 11050)

Which means this bear could take two min hatefuls back to back and live.

Fun stuff.

Also- if they ever took out the hard cap on armor - that 22083 armor would be somewhere around 80-82%
Which makes for a comical :
29990 x .18 = 5398 top end
22100 x .18 = 3978 low end.

Hehe.

Avoidance is one of the things that makes surviving the worst storms of hits possible - the avoidance on a warrior vastly outstrips that of a feral druid, and with inspiration and stoneshields up, the mitigation you get on a warrior is nearly identical to that of the druid who cannot get the same level of avoidance. In the end, warriors take less damage. Besides, shield wall alone makes warriors better for the last part.