Warrior 1H and 2H DPS

Malorum · 07/26/06, 11:23 AM

Figured id share these with everyone over here. These are courtesy of our resident Fury warrior who just loves to crunch numbers much like alot of the rogues here :) . Im just going to link the threads on our forums so the pictures dont needlessly suck bandwidth from here:

Main and One Handers

2 Handers

Enjoy.

PS I take no credit for these. Malic was the one who puts all the work into these. If you have any questions about them you can throw them his way.

subscience · 07/26/06, 11:39 AM

Thanks. :)

Zagzil · 07/26/06, 12:09 PM

I'm somewhat confused. How does Thunderfury have a higher top-end for Heroic Strikes than Kingsfall (and a bunch of other daggers)? I was under the impression Heroic Strikes were not among the normalized attacks, and thus daggers with top-end that high should still HS for more than a Thunderfury.

suicuique · 07/26/06, 12:10 PM

Some stats are missing e.g. TF has AGI. (EDIT: Mistake)

And the final rankings "seems" weird (i am not arguing against TF though ;) ).

Kingsfall having a longer flurry uptime cannot be right, if you consider flurry can be activated by instants but only consumed by "next swing" damage. So the ratio of instants/swings should play a part in this. Which leads us to weapon speed.

These were my first impressions.

regards

P.S His wording in his description to "impale" is deceiving. Impale increases crit damage of abilities by 10% ... not 20%.

Kalman · 07/26/06, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Zagzil

I'm somewhat confused. How does Thunderfury have a higher top-end for Heroic Strikes than Kingsfall (and a bunch of other daggers)? I was under the impression Heroic Strikes were not among the normalized attacks, and thus daggers with top-end that high should still HS for more than a Thunderfury.

They aren't normalized, and Kingsfall is a 1.8 speed weapon, while TF is 1.9. So TF scales slightly better with AP. Think Shanker.

Incidentally, it would also have a higher normalized attack, as daggers normalize to 1.7, while swords normalize to 2.4.

Zagzil · 07/26/06, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Kalman

Originally Posted by Zagzil

I'm somewhat confused. How does Thunderfury have a higher top-end for Heroic Strikes than Kingsfall (and a bunch of other daggers)? I was under the impression Heroic Strikes were not among the normalized attacks, and thus daggers with top-end that high should still HS for more than a Thunderfury.

They aren't normalized, and Kingsfall is a 1.8 speed weapon, while TF is 1.9. So TF scales slightly better with AP. Think Shanker.

Incidentally, it would also have a higher normalized attack, as daggers normalize to 1.7, while swords normalize to 2.4.

I'm well aware, but the problem is the difference. For example, it shows High Warlord's Razor as hitting for less than TF, except the Razor has a higher top-end and is slower.

I think the maker of this is normalizing daggers for HS, look at Shadowsong's Sorrow vs. Warblade of the Hakkari. Both 1.7 speed, Shadowsong's has a top-end of (68)-127, Warblade (59)-110. Avg hit for shadowsong - 401.2. Avg hit for Warblade - 450.3. Clearly something else is at work other than attack power difference.

Kalman · 07/26/06, 12:22 PM

If HWL is hitting for less than TF then yeah, there's a problem in there somewhere. Possibly in how he handles the +nature damage listed on the weapon?

edit: NVM, the Shadowsong vs. Warblade is a pretty clear pointer at him normalizing HS.

suicuique · 07/26/06, 12:24 PM

Or Check Iblis and Kingsfall HS Damage.

regards

Malorum · 07/26/06, 12:49 PM

Ill point him to this thread and see if he can comment.

• frmorrison · 07/26/06, 1:12 PM

Looks decent, but is using HS for dps safe for a Horde warrior?

Deathwing · 07/26/06, 1:27 PM

It's not safe anywhere really, unless you're just starting to dps on a monster that the tank has had some time to build agro. HS = suicide, for the most part.

Suicidique is right, slower weapons have a longer flurry uptime because you get more instant attacks in during 3 melee attacks.

Ultimately, I don't think something like this is really that helpfull. You can't make gear choices based on data that is so insulated. You MUST consider all other gear, what are you fighting, what is your play style, what faction do you play for, what's the typical debuffs on the mob, how good is your tank at holding agro. Plus, I'd like to see the calcs behind these numbers. Otherwise, they're just numbers.

Ravock · 07/26/06, 1:30 PM

Iâ€™d like to see this using stats more in line with being raid buffed (30+ crit, 1800 AP, ect). I have a Thunderfury, and a large portion of itâ€™s DPS is the non scaling proc. Unbuffed the thing is a monster compared to other weapons, but I think in a raiding scenario some other weapons should start to over take it.
And yeah, I agree that it appears that he normalized Heroic Strike which has thrown off a lot of numbers.

Xizorz · 07/26/06, 1:38 PM

Whirlwind should be factored in.

malic · 07/26/06, 3:20 PM

So. Feedback, wheee.

1) I am normalizing Heroic Strike. I was under the impression it was one of the "instants" that got normalized. I'll have to go back and fix that. Thanks.

2) Impale 2/2 tooltip says "Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your abilities on Battle, Defensive, and Berserker stance by 20%." A critical strike is already 200% damage. I know impale doesn't provide 240% damage (multiplicative), so I assumed it was additive (220%). Correct me if I'm wrong.

3) The other part of Heroic Strike number skewing:
I kinda sorta attempted to model how you would actually be able to heroic strike with the weapon. Both sheets were done under the impression that the Mainhander would be getting at least 2 rage per second from the Offhand- something any decent blue (Bone Slicing Hatchet) can do without improved dual wield. The extra rage an offhand produces goes into it's "Utility" rating, where 1 rage per second = ~10.45 dps (roughly the gain you get in heroic strikes). Further, the first place your rage goes is Bloodthirst (requiring 5 rage per second); then actually using a heroic strike causes you to not gain rage for that swing. So the rage cost of Heroic Strike is (in this case) (15 + average rage lost due to using heroic strike) / (rage per second mainhand - 3). This counts the number of heroic strikes you will be able to do per minute based on "average" rage gain.

The actual dps gain is the difference of (HS Avg - AA Avg) * the above number. Hence, my HS DPS is the dps above and beyond AA dps that HS usage will get me. Yes, I do take into account decreased miss rates of HS vs. AA.

4) In my experience, Heroic Strike is raid safe, sorta. You can't spam it constantly and expect to not pull aggro. Firemaw with his knockback, for example- I am light on my HS usage (and so much rage goes out the window). Chromaggus non-timelapse? Free game. I also use it to keep my own aggro high so that if one of the tanks dies, there is a failsafe (though tanks shouldn't be dying, right healers?).

5) Oh, snap. Thunderfury does have 5 agility.

6) With regards to flurry uptime: Heroic strike still consumes a charge of flurry. Windfury consumes a charge of flurry (so f'ing aggrevating!). Bloodthirst does not; and will proc flurry, yes. Generally though, I don't see my flurry uptime much higher than the listed numbers. (I think my peak has been ~78% at 30crit/1500ap raidbuffed).

7) And I guess if you want to see calculations, I'll have to post the actual .ods file.

Breaksmith · 07/26/06, 3:28 PM

Originally Posted by malic

2) Impale 2/2 tooltip says "Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your abilities on Battle, Defensive, and Berserker stance by 20%." A critical strike is already 200% damage. I know impale doesn't provide 240% damage (multiplicative), so I assumed it was additive (220%). Correct me if I'm wrong.

It's the critical strike damage bonus alone.

So it's a 20% bonus to 50% of the damage, or a 10% overall damage gain.