How do rolling ignites work? - Page 2

Shadout · 07/28/06, 4:16 PM

If anyone find a way to convince them ill be interested too :)

I tried to spam them with screens of 4000 ignites on patchwerk from another thread in here. No effect so far...

Darkchani · 07/28/06, 4:31 PM

havent found a reliable one beside crushing them in dmg meters ;p

seriously tho, many ppl like their habits and also many mages like the fact that they can just press 1 button an entire fight, on 90% of the fights and voila (ugh, how boring)... theres not much you can do beside showing them numbers and arguing :P

ie - iceblock is so good ! cant give it up !!... then you talk of when you actualy use it... razuv,anub,maexnna, patchwerk, grobbulus ? nope... would more range be nice on any of thoses fights ? sure. more dps ? always...

Darkchani · 07/28/06, 4:34 PM

bah cant edit : can add noth to the list of iceblock is useless for

• tenshi · 07/28/06, 5:16 PM

I haven't found a way to convince any to play a fire mage, but my guild mages are about 1/3 fire and 2/3 frost. With typically only 2 fire mages in the raid we can still get some interesting rolling ignites going from time to time, but it's not a consistant thing. Still having more than one fire mage does seem to benefit the overall raid dps.

If you are trying to talk iceblock frost mages into fire, you might want to bring up the fact that limited invulnerability pot can substitute for iceblock on melee damage encounters.

One thing to remember though is that because of rolling ignite, fire mages' damage is a collective effort, so depending on who gets to start ignite rolls, your position on damage meter will vary.

Cali · 07/28/06, 6:09 PM

Originally Posted by Chimp

What would be incredibly useful is some sort of mod that constantly displays some information about the current ignite stack in and window on your screen. Info like:
- Number of ignites stacked
- Dmg of last ignite tick
- Owner of the ignite (for agro purposes)
- a small countdown to when the current ignite will tick off. This would need to be reset every time someone refreshes the ignite with another crit.

Would also be interested to see if it would be possible to make something like this.
Possibly link it into Natur's enemy cast bars and implement a check, 'X is afflicted by ignite (5)' and have the cast bar have a 4 second timer on it but have it tie into the combat log so it resets when a mage gets another crits before 'ignite fades from X' happens.

Would be extremely useful if anyone has any idea how to do it or can point me in the right direction where to ask.

Yes · 07/28/06, 7:01 PM

To rehab ignite:

1 mage No COE no IS
0 S Fireball started casting
3 S Fireball leaves hands
3.10 S New Fireball casting
3.2 S Fireball hits target Crit 100!
5.2 S Ignite tics for 20
6.10 S Fireball leaves hands
6.20 S Fireball casting
6.3 S fireball crits! 100!
7.2 S ignite tics! 40!
9.20 S Fiaahball leaves hands.
9.20 S Ignite tics! 40! Expired
9.3 S Fireball casting
9.4 S Fireball crits! 100 Fireball casting
11.4 S Ignite tics 20.

As we can see, fireball spam is not good for ignites alone.

Case two:
Showing crits

0s Mage1 100
1s Mage2 100
2s IgniteFormage1 40
3s Mage 1 100
4s Ignite mage 1 60
4S mage 2 100
6s Ignite! 80
6s Mage 1 100
7s Mage 2 100
8s Ignite mage 1 100
8.1 s Mage3 1000000000000000millionbillionbazilliondmg
8.2 s Mage4 1000000000000000millionbillionbazilliondmg
8.3 s Mage5 1000000000000000millionbillionbazilliondmg
...
10s Ignite mage 1 100.
10 s Mage7 1000000000000000millionbillionbazilliondmg
12s Ignite mage 1 100.

First guy server wide to crit recieves ownership.
Next five consequitive crits within the 2s intervals get stacked
All other crits make tic counter = 2, do not reset timer, do not apply their own ignite dmg.

Best way to convince a frost mage is have them raid with a -good- fire mage, show damage meters
Ice block is never needed.

arch · 07/28/06, 7:27 PM

Originally Posted by Oggie

Sidebar question (god I love the discussions here):
Would it be sensical to scorch spam up to 5x vul, let the ignites (intentionally) roll off from that, THEN hit combustion and trinket/fireball spam, swapping back to scorch?

The first thing you do is putting 5 fire vuln. on the mob of course, then you go combustion get the 3 crits and immideatly start scorching. If you have multiple mages with combustion, you should make them enable it shortly after you aswell (most fire mages should dump their combustion in the start of the fight anyway so you can use it again asap) basically making a short queue to ensure that it rolls for as long as possible.
I'm gonna try to set this up myself with macros, I imagine there will be arguing over the order, but what the hell, its good as long as anyone gets the damage.

Originally Posted by Copernicus

How does Improved Scorch work with Ignite? If, for example, my Fireball crits then I put an Improved Scorch debuff on there in between Ignite ticks, does the 2nd ignite tick for more damage?

Also, when someone dies and their Ignite keeps rolling, does it become damageless aggro? What if they were combat rezzed or soulstoned?

---

I'm mostly asking because I'm trying to figure out the way to optimize Ignite damage with 4 or more Fire mages in the raid.

Yes improved scorch debuff will instantly magnify the ignite damage.

I doubt the game will recognize that the damage dealer dies and somehow determine who should get the ignite next, so lets assume that the mage that got credit for the damage in the beginning keeps getting it even after death.

Kytrarewn · 07/28/06, 8:27 PM

Originally Posted by arch

I doubt the game will recognize that the damage dealer dies and somehow determine who should get the ignite next, so lets assume that the mage that got credit for the damage in the beginning keeps getting it even after death.

I can confirm that that happens with Deadly Poison, at the very least, so I would assume that Ignite works the same way.

♦ Oggie · 07/28/06, 11:20 PM

Originally Posted by arch

The first thing you do is putting 5 fire vuln. on the mob of course, then you go combustion get the 3 crits and immideatly start scorching. If you have multiple mages with combustion, you should make them enable it shortly after you aswell (most fire mages should dump their combustion in the start of the fight anyway so you can use it again asap) basically making a short queue to ensure that it rolls for as long as possible.
-snip-

Yes improved scorch debuff will instantly magnify the ignite damage.

Okay...so how about Nightfall ( http://www.thottbot.com/?i=40828 )?

Since we're effectively dealing with a set amount of damage, just extended out, waiting till a Nightfall warrior has a full bar of rage then spamming till they get a proc, then activating trinkets/combustion NOW macro...with a 10% proc rate on it in the hands of a 2handed fury build, seems like the proc would be relatively easy to force. It only lasts 5 seconds, so that's only one fireball, unless you get lucky and are in 5 piece NW, so maybe 2 or 3 warriors swapping to Nightfall -just- for this inital stack? It's not like the axe is even expensive for a guild that farms MC (with the obvious exception of 20 arcanite, which is hardly hideous).

Just a thought. You lose some shortterm dps, but it seems like the long term benifit (depending if you can keep that ignite going) might more than make up for it.

Or maybe I'm just reading way too much into the potential of this.

Gauss · 07/29/06, 2:34 AM

Originally Posted by Copernicus

I understand that the initial mage who crits gets counted as doing all the Ignite damage for damage/aggro purposes. Every ignite after the initial one gets added on to the roll and increases the length of the debuff.

First- Does critting reset the debuff's timer, or is it still just working off the initial one and adding on. That is, if the 2nd crit follows one second after the first, would it be 2 seconds or 3 seconds until the first ignite tick?

Second- What happens when the Ignite hits 5 debuffs and there's another crit. Does it keep rolling or is it just ignored?

Third- What is the debuff priority on ignites?

First - Yes

Second - Keeps rolling, top 5 crits done so far that ignite get combined into one (as far as I can tell)

Third - I don't think it really matters how high the priority is, it only lasts 4 seconds before getting refreshed.

Grital · 07/29/06, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Oggie

Originally Posted by arch

The first thing you do is putting 5 fire vuln. on the mob of course, then you go combustion get the 3 crits and immideatly start scorching. If you have multiple mages with combustion, you should make them enable it shortly after you aswell (most fire mages should dump their combustion in the start of the fight anyway so you can use it again asap) basically making a short queue to ensure that it rolls for as long as possible.
-snip-

Yes improved scorch debuff will instantly magnify the ignite damage.

Okay...so how about Nightfall ( http://www.thottbot.com/?i=40828 )?

Since we're effectively dealing with a set amount of damage, just extended out, waiting till a Nightfall warrior has a full bar of rage then spamming till they get a proc, then activating trinkets/combustion NOW macro...with a 10% proc rate on it in the hands of a 2handed fury build, seems like the proc would be relatively easy to force. It only lasts 5 seconds, so that's only one fireball, unless you get lucky and are in 5 piece NW, so maybe 2 or 3 warriors swapping to Nightfall -just- for this inital stack? It's not like the axe is even expensive for a guild that farms MC (with the obvious exception of 20 arcanite, which is hardly hideous).

Just a thought. You lose some shortterm dps, but it seems like the long term benifit (depending if you can keep that ignite going) might more than make up for it.

Or maybe I'm just reading way too much into the potential of this.

I remember someone said in another mage thread that a Flurry specced warrior, or a Shaman, would have the NF proc up something like 75% of the time. I don't think they counted a counter-weight though, not sure if that effects PPM.

Also, on a per-zone basis I'd like to have my mages pick a spec as a group. Winter's Chill and Scorch debuff is to many debuff slots for one class. So you might just make all your mages go fire as a practical thing.

Sancus · 07/29/06, 5:25 PM

The expense of Nightfall is not the item itself, it's repping up an Axesmith with TB, which most guilds don't have because well.. other than Nightfall it's a waste of MC mats.

Rodent · 07/30/06, 8:18 AM

Originally Posted by Darkchani

bah cant edit : can add noth to the list of iceblock is useless for

Say what? We put all our frost mages on noth and our fire mages/warlocks on the adds. Iceblock awesome here.

♦ Praetorian · 07/30/06, 11:03 AM

Maybe he means the curse?

Yeah, a lot of abilities go through Ice Block now (Grobbulus's injection is another). Why? Because if they didn't, they also wouldn't go through Divine Shield, and that might skew balance (this started with Vael, I believe, where originally up to 10 members of a typical Alliance raid could survive BA by bubbling/blocking, and they started to make exceptions to the rule of absolute immunity).

Rodent · 07/30/06, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Praetorian

Maybe he means the curse?

True, that does not make it useles on Noth though, its awesome when a frostbolt lands just after teleport ;)