Vytae

Greetings!

My guild has finally killed twinemps and managed to put Anub'rehkan under our belts aswell. We started a week drive to kill C'thun so we could turn full attention to nax. Despite managing a 4.5 hour clear to Cthun from skeram with only one wipe (to trash,of course) and almost 3 full days (we only 40raid 3 days a week) on him our progress has been very slow. We can somewhat reliably get him to phase 2 no problem (always 3-10 deaths p1. ironicly our only flawless transition was our worst p2 attempt) but then things predictibly go to hell.

The problems were having are with mainly coardination. I tried instituting a 'hemisphere' strategy with 4 tanks on the main compass points with 2-3 healers dedicated to them always running out of the stomach if they get swallowed. The 4-5 closest groups all converge on the giant claw while the other 3 (the ones directly across from the room) basicly chill and kill small eye spawn (we were having major problems with everyone running to big tentacles and either A: getting eye chained from giant stalks from across the room because no counterspell in area or B: getting mindflayed) but we were unable to keep up dps this way. We also have the problem of tanks dieing to giant claws with 2-3 healers on them,even the ones in designated wrath.

Ive been stacking mages in the west/south groups so that they have less area to cover with warlocks/hunters in the corners (usually NE/SW) as giant eyes/claws usually seem to spawn on or closest to one of the 4 main compass points. I make all the group's selfsustaining (2 healers per group,good mix of ranged/melee dps) with my best mages and tanks in the west/east groups. Would i be better served stacking 4 major tank groups and 4 major dps groups and just having the dps groups 100% mobile for phase 2? This would cause problems with p1 healing but increase our dps to a large degree as i could properly set up WF/TSA groups.

Any criticism would be appreciated.

Edit: Horde.

Money is not happiness. Yachts are not happiness. Hot women are not Happiness.
Being stinking rich on a yacht with hot women sure as hell is though.

 

Gauss

Alliance or horde? In either case, those giant eye beams should never go off because someone with CS should be in every quadrant. A mindflay eye isn't that big of a deal (especially as alliance, BoFreedom ftw?) so it's much better to waste the CS on a giant eye than have one 2k life eyestalk counterspelled for 10 seconds.

Noobing it up on Mal'Ganis since '06

 

Chaotik

I have mages and pallys spread out at each corner ready to instant stun / CS the giant eyes right as they pop, By that time all the rogues have enough combo points to keep them stun locked. btw you can also kick / pummel them too. Assign 1 person per group on eyes for that area .

Have kill priority go giant eye --> small eyes (unless you are assigned to one then small eyes are first ) --> giant claw. If you have alot of dps in the raid then healers don't really have to heal all too much. Make sure they know while they are standing around in their spots , to dps small eyes too. How do your tanks die to giant claws as well? I've tanked them in dps gear.

Other then that just make sure dps is on top of cleaning up the claws and get flesh tentacles down when you are ready outside then step up the dps on c'thun.

http://www.afterlifeguild.org

 

Tuco

Spread mages out evenly.

Keep tanks/healers relatively close to their original spot.

Have everyone else converge on giant eyes/claws.

Get him weakened asap.

Use the mods out there for timing C'Thun.

Use those mods to have the mages/paladins stationed for when a giant eye will spawn.

At first, be sure to always kill the adds before attacking the weakened C'Thun.

 

Decker

Getting to stage 2 isn't an issue now as you can res between phases. As long as the small melee tents are down you can start dishing out the resses and get basically everyone up. After that it's just focus.

We have killed C'Thun "prenerf" where the fixed the combat bug, and now doesn't matter how retarded you are as long as you get to stage 2 you're fine.

I was being a retard typing in tells to one of our officers about bets on how many attempts it was going to take us on C'Thun. I had won earlier that night with dropping the emps on our first try, but when the beam came up it was on me, and I managed to eat the big one.

I also lost the bet as I had said it'd take us 3+ tries to take him down, but we got him first try. I had forgot about all the combat ressing nonsense and it was a breeze after that with everyone up.

Druids aren't required for their battle resses. It's awesome! C'Thun = free loots now. Once your guild gets him down you'll have that first one under your belt, and farm status will be easy after that.

http://www.paradosi.net

 

◊ Regen

How we always set up groups was as followed

Raid Tab:

1 2

3 4
Eye
5 6

7 8

Group 1:
Quadrant 1 MT (Phase 2)
Mage
Priest
Druid/Shaman/Paladin
Rogue

Group 2:
Quadrant 2 MT (Phase 2)
Mage
Priest
Druid/Shaman/Paladin
Rogue

Group 7:
Quadrant 3 MT (Phase 2)
Priest
Druid/Shaman/Paladin
Mage
Rogue

Group 8:
Quadrant 4 MT (Phase 2)
Priest
Druid/Shaman/Paladin
Mage
Rogue

This covers the Four Corners/Edges if you will for Phase 2 (Giant Tentacle Spawn)
It Also Covers Counterspell/Silence on the Giant Eyes In each Of The Corners
--Also this Cover 4 of the Small Eyes (Mindflay) Spawns (Either rogue or Warrior ready to kill at the edge with Possible Mage Assist)

Group 3:
Warrior West Offtank (Phase 2)/Rogue
Warlock
Mage/Healer
Hunter
Healer

Group 4:
Warrior East Offtank (Phase 2)/Rogue
Mage/Healer
Warlock
Healer

Group 5:
Warrior West Offtank (Phase 2)/Rogue
Hunter
Mage/Healer
Warlock
Healer

Group 6:
Warrior East Offtank (Phase 2)/Rogue
Mage/Healer
Warlock
Healer

Middle Groups Cover The 4 Mindflay Spawns in the middle (2 on each side) Through either the Warrior/Rogue with Ranged Assist

Also leaves an Extra Silence/Counterspell on Either Side, Hunters are great for taking out Mindflay Spawns

---

Phase 2, Giant eyes NEED to be Counterspelled/Silenced or Stunned INSTANTLY. Your looking at a wipe if you chain a beam.

Mindflayers need to be top Priority whenever they spawn.

Giant Tentacles need to be Tanked with an Offtank building aggro incase the MT gets Swallowed, If One Goes Under You are probably looking at a Wipe, unless you get a Weakened state to get it back under Control.

Make sure the raid is topped off At all times in Phase 2. Weakened States are an excellent time to make sure of this.

Fight is entirely about control, When you get it down you will be able to go through As many weakened states as you like to take him down to 0.

-- Hope this helped a bit :) Gl

 

Decker

Also forgot to add to tank the melee tents through stage 2 while DPSing C'Thun, and then get back on the melee tents after. Always take down the eye tents asap, and small eyes get priority over everything...

http://www.paradosi.net

 

◊ Praetorian

...except interrupting/silencing a giant eye that has just spawned near you, if you have those abilities.

 

Decker

My bad...small eyes get DPS priority, but if the giant eye gets off a beam it could mean bad news for the raid :D

http://www.paradosi.net

 

Garett

Personally, i think having 4 warriors to tank Giant Claws is overkill.
We did our first kill with only 2, but have since upped it to 3, the rest go dps.
2 is enough to cover the entire room if your rogues are quick on the stunlocks, 3 is just to be safe.
As for group makeup, put either a lock or a mage in each group and tell them to save their counterspells/spell-locks until after the giant eye has popped. Make sure they know not to waste it on the small eye unless the giant eye is on the other side of the room.

A free small eye has the potential to kill one person, a giant eye can kill everyone.

 

◊ Anias

Kill priority (Ranged--healers are ranged too) -

Small Eye > Giant Eye > Giant Claw > C'Thun

Kill Priority (Mellee--tanks are melle too)

Giant Eye > Small Eye > C'Thun > Giant Claw


Interrupt Priority is obviously Giant Eye > Small Eye - but you SHOULD ANNOUNCE THAT YOU HAVE INTERRUPTED. Nothing feels sillier than the 6 way interupted giant eye. "He's silenced, counterspelled, kicked, pummeled, bashed and spell locked!" :rolleyes:

A fair portion of the encounter comes down to individuals making correct assessments. As an example, Once you have two tanks on the giant claw - tell the other tanks to spread out to deal with the next set of eyestalks. You won't need their damage on the claw, and even full wrath prot warrior with ashkandi can kill an eyestalk before pummel wears off. (Most of our warriors are wearing a mix of gear, but the point stands 2200 damage isn't hard to come by). Another example is having your mellee know when they should jump on c'thun to build combo points/sunder as the inside tentacle goes down, or your rogues judging when they're better off waiting for the eyestalks than running to get on a claw.

Most of this stuff comes with practice. While it's nice that the raidleader or main tank understands the fight, it's really a fight where you need 38-40 people all making good decisions. Whil it's really apparent when someone makes a bad decision, the trick is to explain what they should have decided, and get them to do it next time. =P All in all, I think c'thun is an incredibly good experience (even with the cheesy mid fight ressing) for your raid.

Math is very easy, explaining math is quite difficult.

 

Calantus

I haven't fought C'Thun for almost 2 months now (server change), can anyone tell me how the new ressing inbetween phases works? Do you just have that whole time from end of first phase to the 2nd stage where he's emerging to rez/drink?

 

◊ Regen

If all small tents are down when you start P2 you drop out of combat for... meh a Good 30 seconds or until you initiate combat again.

I mean its nice to get a quick res off and drink, Its not something that allows absolute crap in phase 1.

Giant Tentacles spawn after the same duration

 

Crimsonjade

Basically, when when he is dying in phase 1 you will lose combat for a number of seconds if all the small claws are dead as well. Make sure your group hunts them down asap as the Eye is in the initial death throes and you can rez anyone who was not paying attention!

 

• Arawethion

I just try my best to spread every class (especially Warriors, Rogues, and Mages) around the raid as uniformly as possible. We use the same group-based positioning that probably everyone uses, and we rotate the whole raid 180 degrees each Dark Glare.

For phase 2, we try to maintain that basic group-based positioning. People obviously move around to swarm onto tentacles and things, but everyone should be trying to "spring" back to their home position whenever they can. People also need to be aware of when Small/Giant Eyes are coming, so they get back to cover their areas, no matter what else is going on.

The group positions in P2 are actually reversed, since we tend to end P1 in the alternate positions (buffed up, we finish P1 right before the fourth Dark Glare).

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

Pyros

What I do on Chtun is equip a specific set of gear, that's like a mix of dps and tanking gear. With toughness 5/5, I end up with 500less hps than my tanking gear, 9200base armor, but also 5%hit and 890base ap. Those aren't GREAT stats, but they let me solo small eyes decently, and help on chtun dps during weakens. When a giant claw pops in my zone, I intercept it(I'm usually waiting around in zerk stance, makes it easier to kill small eyes), then switch to shield, sunder once, then demo shout. Demo shout usually prevents any instant kill from trash, even when I'm not topped.

Turn the claws so they face away from where the dps is coming from, and so they don't have to stay on small eyes spawn. If a claw is up during a weaken, offtank it, and tell warlocks and druids/priests to put dots on it, usually a claw that spawned right before a weaken will be at like 30% after the weaken if it was dotted.

That's for the melee part, we use 4tanks, so if one gets devoured, another is in range and in tanking gear, however, with stuns, you could very well use only 3 tanks, with one in the "middle" going to every claw.

As a warrior, you can easily stop a giant eye too, intercept it, switch to shield/def stance then bash it. I don't have improved bash, but a bash locks the eye for a longer time than a pummel, if you actually land it correctly(spellalert).

Other than that, we usually leave a few dps classes in their "group" position for small eyes, specifically mages or locks, because they can take out eyes fast, CS giant eyes and dps claws while still keeping their group small eye spawn in sight. The tanks not on giant claws are also assigned to small eyes, but for us, small eyes aren't the top priority, you can easily heal thru mindflay, so we focus on important stuff first(giant eyes, claw that has no tank because of devours/deaths).

It's not really hard, you just need someone calling stuff out on vent/ts, so people don't lose time finding out what to do. Getting over 30% every weaken also makes it much easier, since you will only go thru 3phases instead of 4, but usually if you can get a 3rd phase down, you should be able to hold until 4th, even if it's really bad looking(doing the last 5% with all healers dpsing is pretty easy even if you have like 3claws up ^^)

 

Oneeye

Keep the warriors how they are imo. The best and fastest way to wipe is a warrior solo tanking a claw getting "eaten" by the stomach or knocked back and the tentacle burrows. Stage 2 is a joke anymore with the ressing, and I don't think you will have much trouble after you get the assists and orders figured out.

 

Xard

our guild uses a 7 group circling strategy, with the 4 top melee dps + 1 shaman in a group around the eye to get full totem benefits. This has worked really well to keep eye dps up, as well as reducing the number of overall totems that need to be laid by the shamans and thus saving mana for ES and heals, the first of which is crucial in this fight. We normally have 5 or 6 people on the eye, so some of them aren't in the group, but the four best players push out a lot more dps by being grouped and fully group buffed than they would with questionable buffing but having them be distributed.

And yes, all the stuff they said about p2 is true. Also useful is to have warriors just hack away at an invul cthun because they'll get tiny amounts of rage (fury with UW for example) so they can always be ready to intercept a giant eye when it comes up. Similarly rogues can store up combo points on him so they begin dpsing down either him or a giant tent with SnD rather than having to get into the groove of things, and also ALL the minus armor debuffs need to be on him before you go into an invulnerable phase, ie CoR, FF, 5x sunder so that the melee dps can ramp up as soon as possible. Any player in tank gear works perfectly here for this since they aren't doing dps anyways.

 

Grimmarg

Giant claws really need to be taken down fast, or you will be overwhelmed very, very quickly. That was our main problem when we started reaching phase2 reliably (we had two days fully attempting phase2, the week after that we killed him on our 4th or so attempt). We wouldn't down the giant claw fast enough, so we had it at 30% or something when the first giant eye spawned, and all dps was relayed there. And we would get two claws up at a time, at most times. It's a strain on healers and tanks, and it takes alot of attention from everything else going on.

Making it through phase2 requires a full raid. Having 3-10 people dead everytime after phase1 just doesn't cut it, you can have 3 MAX. Upon entering phase2 make sure every small claw is down, and every eye dealt with, so you get out of combat to res the 1-3 unlucky people that died, and then drink up.

Put dps on the first giant claw as soon as possible.

What we do is have a rogue or warrior for each of the small eyes. He/she has to make sure to be in position to take down the eye that spawns everytime they spawn. If they're in the stummach they either agree with another person (NOT A MAGE) to take care of the small eye, or they jump up immediately and deal with it.

A tank with 2-3 healers for each corner as you already do is fine, and those tanks really shouldn't be dying. You dps giant claws down fast, and they need to be down, or below 20% before the giant eye that follows spawns. Have mages on all sides of C'thun ready to silence the eyes, if a rogue is close hurry in and get a stun off, just to interrupt it long enough for all mages to arrive, dps it down fast and keep silencing/stunning the eye. Fast dps is KEY.

Make sure to time the last tentacle in the stummach with the current giant claw/giant eye upstairs dying so you can go full dps on C'thun during a weakened state. Having a giant claw up for weakened state isn't very great, as you will then have two up upon the ending of weakened and you will be strained on dps.

That's basically it, good luck. :)

 

Kytrarewn

Quick question about weakened phase: How does it affect spawn timers, Giant Eye and Small Eye in particular?

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


Jesus don't want me in a sunbeam
Sunbeams are always made on me
Don't expect me to cry, for all the reasons I'm gonna die
Don't ever ask your kick of me.

 

Kytrarewn

That's what I meant: Following the vulnerability: Do the spawns resume their original timer, or do they start from when the vulnerability ends (ie. reset following the 45 seconds).

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


Jesus don't want me in a sunbeam
Sunbeams are always made on me
Don't expect me to cry, for all the reasons I'm gonna die
Don't ever ask your kick of me.

 

Zoner

Phase2 is simple

Giant Claw
...
+30 seconds Small eyes and Giant Eye
+30 seconds Small eyes and Giant claw
+30 seconds Small eyes and Giant Eye
+30 seconds Small eyes and Giant claw
+30 seconds Small eyes and Giant Eye
+30 seconds Small eyes and Giant claw
...
until vulnerability then it starts all over again


People are pulled into the stomach every 10 seconds, after the first giant claw pops out.

 

Vytae

Much thank's for all the replies ^^ were heading into 2 more full raid days of cthun only so hopefully we can have him soon. From the replies here im pretty sure i can refine our strategy alot giving us that extra edge.

Cheers~

Money is not happiness. Yachts are not happiness. Hot women are not Happiness.
Being stinking rich on a yacht with hot women sure as hell is though.