Razorgore and Aggro generation by Healing.

acranum · 08/02/06, 9:08 PM

Currently I belong to a Meta-guild which we call "Synergy" that has MC on farm and is starting BWL fairly heavy. We have Razorgore on farm and have had Vael to below 5% on many recent occasions. Some members of our "Synergy" are currently embroiled in a aurgument regarding healing and the aggro it causes. We use the Corners/Kite method with Razorgore as we are still not geared up enough to use the brute force method.

My question is very simple. Since I am a rogue I play a key role in the corner method by having to take care of the spawnng mages. I want to know simply if getting healed by a HOT (regrowth/renew) causes me aggro. Now I have done my homework and have read through the entire wowwiki article on aggro by Kenco. And I also have perused these threads and read several articles regarding aggro. In Kenco's article it does state that Healing Gained (from certain effects) causes .5 aggro. Healing Done causes .5 aggro. Notice the small caveat in the first bit of this "from certain effect". Heh what are those effects?

In my own experience recently Synergy has done the Razorgore fight with little or no healing in the corners and been highly successful. I personally have gotten to Phase 2 with no healing at all never recieving aggro at anytime during the kite other than mages of course. And then we have done the fight with healing going on in the corners and failing. By this I mean I received regrowth/renew and got aggro from a random spawn (Lego) that on the previous fight just ran right through me to join the kite. I am convinced that recieving a HOT then having a mob spawn with a clean aggro list will get that mobs aggro because I am within the 5 yard aggro radius and have a HOT ticking on me. That .5 aggro is enough to cause me to get on that mobs list. If I did not have that HOT on me the mob would head for the Demo/HOTing Kiters. So is this idea correct?

I want to say that I have refrained posting here as most of you are working on Raid Content that is months away from Synergy's progress. In addition I would also like to say that this forum is a invaluable source of information for guilds such as mine to read up on all the latest theorycrafting and facts that abound here. Finally I would like someone to clearly state if I am mistaken in my assumptions in regards to my questions.

Thanks You.

Jonno · 08/02/06, 9:40 PM

Someone else healing you won't generate any aggro towards you AFAIK. All the aggro from the heal goes towards the healer not the person being healed (HoT or regular heals - it shouldn't matter).

The healing effects it refers to are things like Crusader procs which effectively count the same as if you have healed yourself.

In a low aggro situation like kiting the lego's where even minor amounts of aggro can peel mobs they can have a significant impact. Dual wielding weapons with Crusader enchants can defintely pull aggro - some of our rogues equip other weapons in this fight to make sure they don't have an untimely crusader proc or two.

Not sure if this is the cause of your problem - your probably gonna turn round and say you don't have crusader enchants but it is one of the possibilities so I thought I'd throw it out there.

Savos · 08/02/06, 10:07 PM

With the mechanic of buff threat being applied to all the mobs "aware" of you divided by the number of mobs seems like it would take an exceptional string of luck to proc Crusader enough to pull "healing" aggro over anyone else that might be healing. And it only applies to actual healing done, not overhealing.

I don't know if I really buy the threat/number of mobs hate given to each mob, but it does seem to explain how warriors can keep the adds on Fankriss on them with a 50 something threat/mob demoralizing show despite being healed significant amounts from the healers.

Jonno · 08/02/06, 10:39 PM

I think the issue he is talking about is with a newly spawned Lego. I don't know how long before spawning these guys get to build up threat for but in a very low aggro situation like this they could well spawn with virtually zero aggro if no one has cast a heal recently. These guys will often head straight to an EB totem as it is top of their threat list don't forget. In that situation the small healing and power gain from the a Crusader proc or two can pull aggro.

legatto · 08/03/06, 2:19 AM

If you bandage yourself, or in any other manner heal yourself, you get some aggro.

If a priest/druid renews/rejuvs you, he gets that aggro, not you.

Thorb · 08/03/06, 2:24 AM

We use warrior kiting the whole room still, healers do tend to aggro early on if they try to heal, but as the fight goes by, with the amount of mob in room going and the multiple demo shout taking effect, it become literally impossible to take aggro even if they chain heal.

Since healing aggro is divided by all mobs, at the end of razor each demo shout will do enough aggro to hold a heal of like 4-5k off 1 healer.

acranum · 08/03/06, 10:02 AM

Well it sounds to me like everyone is saying that only the healer recieves aggro from healing. I do not have Crusader on my weps BBlade and CHT. I have +15 AGI on both. I swear to you on that when I am healed I get aggro from the random spawn lego's. btw its always the Lego's and not the kin. I do not know how to account for this at this point.

Thanks for the input. But it seems that my query goes unanswered thus far.

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jubelio · 08/03/06, 10:09 AM

You are probably prox aggroing them, if you dont want aggro, dont stand so dont stand so dont stand so close to the spawn points.

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Malan · 08/03/06, 10:14 AM

The Legos have a very quirky aggro pattern that I don't really think is fully understood yet. If you watch one or two that don't get picked up right away, sometimes they simply proximity aggro onto the DPS in the corners, other times they make a beeline to the Orb platform, sometimes I've seen them just wander around the room whacking people with no regard to aggro.

Ishara · 08/03/06, 10:14 AM

Im pretty certain that you dont get aggro when someone heals you, otherwise drake pulling in BWL would be so much easier! No more shadow flame raid please.

My advice would be that if you get a lego on you, run into the path of where the tanks are kiting around so its easy for him/her to take it off you.

Edit: And ive also seen them go to the controller platform, usually a collection point for me :)

Kaubel · 08/03/06, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by acranum

Well it sounds to me like everyone is saying that only the healer recieves aggro from healing.

Thanks for the input. But it seems that my query goes unanswered thus far.

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Abridged, so that I can more easily admire it.

Dirklin · 08/03/06, 10:55 AM

Thanks, Kaubel; that was great.

I am one of the ones embroiled in this 'discussion' with Qatar, and I just wanted to thank everyone for saying, word for word in some cases, exactly what I've been trying to tell him.

Thanks,

Dirklin

Kaubel · 08/03/06, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Dirklin

Thanks,

Dirklin

My head is going to explode.

Rarek · 08/03/06, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Kaubel

My head is going to explode.

Kaubel

acranum · 08/03/06, 12:20 PM

heh my bad for posting a reply with circular logic. I am now properly chagrined. No coffee in the morning makes for thoughtless forum posting.
Since I am reeling from being so thoroughly chastised perhaps you "Elitist Jerks" can now refrain from the beatdown.