acranum

Currently I belong to a Meta-guild which we call "Synergy" that has MC on farm and is starting BWL fairly heavy. We have Razorgore on farm and have had Vael to below 5% on many recent occasions. Some members of our "Synergy" are currently embroiled in a aurgument regarding healing and the aggro it causes. We use the Corners/Kite method with Razorgore as we are still not geared up enough to use the brute force method.

My question is very simple. Since I am a rogue I play a key role in the corner method by having to take care of the spawnng mages. I want to know simply if getting healed by a HOT (regrowth/renew) causes me aggro. Now I have done my homework and have read through the entire wowwiki article on aggro by Kenco. And I also have perused these threads and read several articles regarding aggro. In Kenco's article it does state that Healing Gained (from certain effects) causes .5 aggro. Healing Done causes .5 aggro. Notice the small caveat in the first bit of this "from certain effect". Heh what are those effects?

In my own experience recently Synergy has done the Razorgore fight with little or no healing in the corners and been highly successful. I personally have gotten to Phase 2 with no healing at all never recieving aggro at anytime during the kite other than mages of course. And then we have done the fight with healing going on in the corners and failing. By this I mean I received regrowth/renew and got aggro from a random spawn (Lego) that on the previous fight just ran right through me to join the kite. I am convinced that recieving a HOT then having a mob spawn with a clean aggro list will get that mobs aggro because I am within the 5 yard aggro radius and have a HOT ticking on me. That .5 aggro is enough to cause me to get on that mobs list. If I did not have that HOT on me the mob would head for the Demo/HOTing Kiters. So is this idea correct?

I want to say that I have refrained posting here as most of you are working on Raid Content that is months away from Synergy's progress. In addition I would also like to say that this forum is a invaluable source of information for guilds such as mine to read up on all the latest theorycrafting and facts that abound here. Finally I would like someone to clearly state if I am mistaken in my assumptions in regards to my questions.

Thanks You.

 

Jonno

Someone else healing you won't generate any aggro towards you AFAIK. All the aggro from the heal goes towards the healer not the person being healed (HoT or regular heals - it shouldn't matter).

The healing effects it refers to are things like Crusader procs which effectively count the same as if you have healed yourself.

In a low aggro situation like kiting the lego's where even minor amounts of aggro can peel mobs they can have a significant impact. Dual wielding weapons with Crusader enchants can defintely pull aggro - some of our rogues equip other weapons in this fight to make sure they don't have an untimely crusader proc or two.

Not sure if this is the cause of your problem - your probably gonna turn round and say you don't have crusader enchants but it is one of the possibilities so I thought I'd throw it out there.

 

Savos

With the mechanic of buff threat being applied to all the mobs "aware" of you divided by the number of mobs seems like it would take an exceptional string of luck to proc Crusader enough to pull "healing" aggro over anyone else that might be healing. And it only applies to actual healing done, not overhealing.

I don't know if I really buy the threat/number of mobs hate given to each mob, but it does seem to explain how warriors can keep the adds on Fankriss on them with a 50 something threat/mob demoralizing show despite being healed significant amounts from the healers.

 

Jonno

I think the issue he is talking about is with a newly spawned Lego. I don't know how long before spawning these guys get to build up threat for but in a very low aggro situation like this they could well spawn with virtually zero aggro if no one has cast a heal recently. These guys will often head straight to an EB totem as it is top of their threat list don't forget. In that situation the small healing and power gain from the a Crusader proc or two can pull aggro.

 

legatto

If you bandage yourself, or in any other manner heal yourself, you get some aggro.

If a priest/druid renews/rejuvs you, he gets that aggro, not you.

 

Thorb

We use warrior kiting the whole room still, healers do tend to aggro early on if they try to heal, but as the fight goes by, with the amount of mob in room going and the multiple demo shout taking effect, it become literally impossible to take aggro even if they chain heal.

Since healing aggro is divided by all mobs, at the end of razor each demo shout will do enough aggro to hold a heal of like 4-5k off 1 healer.

 

acranum

Well it sounds to me like everyone is saying that only the healer recieves aggro from healing. I do not have Crusader on my weps BBlade and CHT. I have +15 AGI on both. I swear to you on that when I am healed I get aggro from the random spawn lego's. btw its always the Lego's and not the kin. I do not know how to account for this at this point.

Thanks for the input. But it seems that my query goes unanswered thus far.



Qatar

 

jubelio

You are probably prox aggroing them, if you dont want aggro, dont stand so dont stand so dont stand so close to the spawn points.

Qatar

 

Malan

The Legos have a very quirky aggro pattern that I don't really think is fully understood yet. If you watch one or two that don't get picked up right away, sometimes they simply proximity aggro onto the DPS in the corners, other times they make a beeline to the Orb platform, sometimes I've seen them just wander around the room whacking people with no regard to aggro.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Ishara

Im pretty certain that you dont get aggro when someone heals you, otherwise drake pulling in BWL would be so much easier! No more shadow flame raid please.

My advice would be that if you get a lego on you, run into the path of where the tanks are kiting around so its easy for him/her to take it off you.

Edit: And ive also seen them go to the controller platform, usually a collection point for me :)

 

◊ Kaubel

Abridged, so that I can more easily admire it.

 

Dirklin

Thanks, Kaubel; that was great.

I am one of the ones embroiled in this 'discussion' with Qatar, and I just wanted to thank everyone for saying, word for word in some cases, exactly what I've been trying to tell him.

Thanks,

Dirklin

 

◊ Kaubel

My head is going to explode.

 

Rarek

http://ctprofiles.net/544293

 

acranum

heh my bad for posting a reply with circular logic. I am now properly chagrined. No coffee in the morning makes for thoughtless forum posting.
Since I am reeling from being so thoroughly chastised perhaps you "Elitist Jerks" can now refrain from the beatdown.

 

Skytor

Are you using any food buffs or potions that restore X health per 5 seconds? - each tick of those will generate agro (not much but if the timing is bad, it could be enough)

 

Foeresh

Why are we still talking about agro? The lego's and dragons have a few seconds before they even look for targets to attack, keep your CC'ers ontop of things to get the legos sheeped and the dragons slept (or chain feared if you only have one druid :-/) until a kiter can pick it up. Just deal with the mages quickly, heal between spawns and you should be fine.

As people have stated, if you regenerate the health by an action YOU performed you will get some threat. It will not be enough to pull the mobs off kiters unless you take 30 minutes to clear the eggs in which case a single mob may have been in range long enough during those healing effects to register threat enough to equal 130% in which case you have bigger problems than healing agro and should re-evaluate entering BWL.

And to be a little more accurate to our healing strategy in corners - we dont do it, healers in corners help with dps'ing down mages so that damage isnt a problem while dealing with the CC accordingly so that kiters can pick em up

 

acranum

For the record. I know not to heal myself during this encounter.
Thanks for all the witty repartee. The final conclusion is that I am getting minimum proximity aggro from the random lego's.

 

jubelio

thread needs more police appreciation.

 

Draynar

I always though that if you healed someone before a pull that once combat is intiated the hot type of heals would give the person being healed(that isnt overheal of course) the agro from them? I know the healer doesnt receive this pre combat agro does it just vanish?

 

jubelio

This is how it would work.

Situation A

bob the tank is at full health and steve the druid casts a hot on him.

Pull starts, the actual heal generates no aggro because it isnt healing any damage.


Situation B

Bob the tank is at half health and steve the druid casts a hot on him.

Pull starts, while bob has prox aggro on the mobs, the heal aggro causes the mobs to switch to steve.


---

Healing will always always always always cause aggro to whatever or whoever is doing the healing as long as it is actually healing damage and not just overhealing.

 

Draynar

See that just doesn't seem right when doing places with multiple mobs and double hot if I don't go into combat and the other mobs are ignored(not hit by tank or others before healing kicks in etc) they dont rush for me when the hots start healing the tank.

 

Soul

But here's how it often works:

Bob is at full health and Steve casts a HoT on him. Pull starts, Bob proximity aggros and runs in to hit the mob. The mob hits Bob for x damage and Bob on his end perceives himself hitting the mob for y damage simultaneously and then Steve's HoT tick heals Bob. However, due to lag, Bob takes x damage, and Steve's HoT ticks on Bob before Bob's hit lands and Steve pulls aggro. Bob's hit is then registered as landing, but doesn't generate enough hate to pull aggro off of Steve. Steve gets owned.

 

• Chicken

I think that's mostly because they don't automattically add the entire raid to their threat list when spawned, if you want it's actually possible to remain out of combat for most of Razorgore phase one if you choose your position carefully. But it also means your healing aggro will get divided amongst far less targets unless you're completely certain that whoever you're healing is on the threat list of the majority of them.

buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of

 

Zoner

Use volley and have the controller kite.

'brute force' doesnt kill every orc, it sets up a priority means mages #1, legionares on healers #2, older/wounded legionaires second, new legionares last. If you are standing idle waiting for mages while legos are spawning, thats just a dumb waste of time you could be spent on making the fight easier.

Towards the end of the egg phase I'm basically tabing through everything on the floor looking for any 'target of target' where something is on a healing class, at which point I attack it and kill it (or maybe fear kite+dots etc).