Can't this last component of the formula be left out? Or at least it needs to be incorporated into the numerator, right? Otherwise aren't you really looking at here the DPS increase between a 1.11 warlock with untalented lifetap and a 1.12 warlock with fully talented lifetap (ie, apples and oranges). With Improved Lifetap the numerator should be 3.63 by my calculations, not 3.86.

With my rather modest 600 shadow damage and with the tweak to the formula, I come up with this giving me approximately 16% DPS increase from shadowbolts, which is a good boost to damage for less well equipped warlocks too.

Nice work on the math anyway, it's a neat way of looking at the problem.

I addded the option to my simulator, and recomputed the previous study with the new lifetap :
http://www.skav.org/theorycraft/warl..._regen_112.php

It raises DPS but also consequently the healing needed, and therefore doesn't really solve our efficiency issues.

An interesting effect is that the void sacrifice becomes a good regeneration strategy, with very low healing. Of course the healing aggro stays an issue, but isn't that better than draining the healers ?

This also makes Sacced Voidwalker more attractive on fights where aggro is not as touchy. As life will once more be more valuble then mana. I disagree that is buff makes Doomcaller lesser,i think it makes 5 Dc + 2 PH incredibly uber as it increases your sustainability by a dramatic margin.

You still get your cheaper shadowbolts and with 600+dmg one lifetap will allow you to cast 3 more. Throw in Shadowbolt heal procs from plagueheart and Sacced VW and you will have a damn close to self sustaining mana pool. Tap twice,get 2kish mana (depending on talents,and if it works off +shadow and shadowmastery) and by time you blow through it the VW and shadowbolt heal procs will likely have you almost full. Thats like,free mana that dosent run out.

Sidenote: I have yet to aqquire a single piece of plagueheart,but the only warlock on the server with 2 says +dmg works on the shadowbolt heal proc. True? cuz thats just damn sexy.

I need a new pair of pants...

On a related note, will 5/5 doomcaller be worth it, and how effective will 8/8 plagueheart be comparatively to 5/5 doomcaller + 3/8 PH now?

But this is a very very good change, warlocks will be far more competitive in dps vs mages now, especially alliance warlocks who face much less aggro limitations (cough cough alliance imbalance)

5/5 DC if you're doing nothing but Shadow Bolts and Life Taps and have Imp Life Tap, 600 damage and no Cataclysm, is worth roughly a 2.3% DPS increase. That's far from massive.

With regards to DC being worth it: 5 plagueheart on those spots will probably be worth about the same, or a very small upgrade at best. However, Plagueheart Boots, Robes and Circlet plus Leggings of Polarity and Rime Covered Mantle definitely beats 5/5 DC.

Keep in mind as well, that on multiple target fights, DC is not that awesome because most of your mana will be spent on dots.

If we take improved lifetap into account for the numerator, we obtain:

1.5 / (420 * 1.2 / 380) + 2.5 = 3.63

Reworking the numbers with this numerator, we obtain:

3.63 / (2.5 + 1.5/(([lifetap multiplier] * ([damage multiplier] * [+shadow] * 0.8 + 420)) / 380))

With a top geared warlocks, we obtain

3.63 / (2.5 + 0.466) = 1.224 =~ 22.4% instead of 30% without improved lifetap. Your number of 16% for 600 damage looks about right. Did you remember to take shadow damage multipliers into account?

Nice catch, thanks.

Well this mana issue is all well and good, but it still doesn't solve the aggro issues. What use is mana if you can't cast spells becuse you're catching the #2 tank on the agro list?

Warlocks that speak for aggro issue , go past broodlord in bwl and you will see that the game changes alot after that(for a warlock at least.).
There are other two instances considered to be superior to BWL , called Temple of Ahn Quiraj and Naxxramas and if you manage to pull aggro there anywhere on any boss/trash from a good tank(very important) - hands down you are the best dps I've heard of.
Not to mention half of the warlocks are alliance , but I guess those talking for aggro are horde.

I am up to Skeram hangman and all the way through bwl I'm on the edge of the off tanks and in almost every boss fight I'm taking a break because of it.

After this change I'll still be a healer mana sponge and I'll still have agro issues. I for one don't think this change will do much for me.

Check the sustained dps thread. Hangman posted a screenshot of him topping the Damage Meter on Patchwerk.

Maybe he has better tanks and/or salvation, not sure of his faction.

uh, you can't pull aggro on patchwerk. (well, you theoretically can, but its damn near impossible)

http://img154.imageshack.us/my.php?i...taptoepwt5.jpg

ps: a big rofl @ some of the mage zealots on this forums and others complaining (before this change), that locks shouldn't get changes to life tap. appearantly blizz disagrees. the ss here was taken from PTR, life tap mana is in the lower left.

Uh, it was interesting before. Or do you not like ~8% more dps in long fights?

This change actually makes improved life tap LESS interesting.


20% boost = less time lift tapping, proportionally.

With life tapping taking up ~32% of our time in this patch (1.11), improved life tap is signficant. With it taking up half that time, it becomes less significant.

I do like the fact that a single cast will now give me 1100 mana back though ... and it makes MD/Ruin a much more viable DPS build where it sucked before compared to SM/Ruin or DS/Ruin when thereat wasn't an issue. It makes SM/DS less viable.

SM/DS was better than it "should" have been before becaue it was the most mana efficient build possible for shadowbolts. So all those calculations that many ave done that show bane being so good usually don't factor in the increased life tapping that bane causes due to increased mana consumption over time..... SM/DS increases DPS without increasing mana used per second, and is suprisingly close (today) to SM/Ruin. After this patch... and was (and should still be) the top 3+ target damage build we have. MD/Ruin will gain 16% long term dps from the life tap change, but SM/DS will not... closer to 11% gain. This makes it go from slightly behind to far behind a Ruin build. But it will still kick butt at 2 or more target situations and excell at 3+ targets.

Currently 9/21/21, for maximal single target long term dps (I force my other warlocks to use the imp for tanks most of the time... but they are SM/Ruin imp imp just isn't that important 95% of the time.... yeah we usually roll with 4 to 6 locks and have a suprising shortage of mages for some reason -- it hasn't been an issue for us at all as far as I can tell).

Lastly, and off topic -- This patch at least Rain of Fire works just fine on red draks on Nef phase 1 -- though hellfire does crap damage due to the fire resists -- RoF doesn't care about the resists... anyone else seeing that? Maybe it happened before too (I never tried)? Who needs mages to kill nef anyway?

His meters were either not synced or they have godawful rogues/mages/warriors, considering he was topping meters at ~525 DPS.

I havent pulled aggro on any fight in naxx or aq where it would have been a problem.

Nevertheless I do use the Fetish on some bosses and wear full nemesis on Instructor since its better for the rogues to get aggro if MC breaks - but then since that fight doesnt 'require' max dps its hardly an issue.

See, now it will be effected by the Thaddius damage boost and we're gonna see some more self destructing warlocks, hell yea

I've noticed this for awhile, I don't think it's a new change. I first noticed it on the Corehound packs in MC (The good ol' days). Rain of Fire would consistently get full tics while Hellfire would get a fair amount of partial resistances. I never gave it much thought since Hellfiring is more fun.