Old JP system discussion thread - Page 11

Taeme · 12/03/05, 7:26 PM

Originally Posted by Lyion,December 3rd, 2005 @ 5:55PM

My guild is very interested in your upgrade system and is currently considering adopting something similar. We were curious about the following: using your example above how would a warrior change the spinal reaper to duel wield using your upgrade system?

No one dual wields in EJ! Go away!

More seriously, under our system the first one hander would be consider his tank weapon. The second would be his dps slot, which can be an off hand, or a cheaper more dps-y mainhand or a two hander. So, me with Brutality Blade and Bonereaver's can loot a Maladath for 50 jp, and it's considered an upgrade over Brutality Blade. But since you can never tank with a two-hander, a two hander always upgrades from the DPS slot.

• Hamlet · 12/06/05, 7:37 AM

We run a system that we came up with independently, but it's incredibly similar to yours (main differences have to do with upgrade policy).

Any progress on the question of point imbalance between classes, heading into a zone with a lot of important cross-class loot? I discussed this briefly with Praetorian on R&D; we both have the same problem of Warriors being, on average, multiple epics behind the rest of the raid (presumably due to the high amount of weapon looting). Other class variations is probably due to random fluctuation, but still quite present.

The problem seems kind of baked into the game--since caster weapons represent so much less of an upgrade (about equivalent to any armor slot) than Warrior weapons, we creep ahead in points. Warriors try to say it can simply be fixed by pricing caster items higher, not realizing that they would simply become undesirable at those levels.

Only thing I can think of is to somehow use the new AQ spell ranks as a controlling factor. Arguing that a new rank of Frostbolt is far more of an upgrade than a new rank of Deadly Poison, try to recreate the weapon slot situation, in reverse. I think it has promise, but might not be easy.

Thoughts? (not trying to be too intrusive, but I've been thinking about this for a while, and relish the opportunity to discuss with a top-end guild who uses a system similar enough that a solution might translate.)

• Hamlet · 12/06/05, 7:51 AM

Another question, about your handling of Warriors (which I may propose adopting, since it is not only cleaner, but friendlier to the Warriors.):

Since Warriors have a "slot" which can hold both 1H and 2H, and 1H tend to be less expensive than 2H, can a Warrior with a 2-hander just loot good 1-hand weapons for free, at their leisure (presumably for offhanding)?

• Double-Neg · 12/06/05, 10:25 AM

I'm not sure how you guys handle 20 man instances, but the new spells come out of the 20 man, that wouldn't work for us in particular since we don't use our point system for ZG or AQ20.

Warriors have 3 upgradable weapon slots, One Hander, 2 Hander, Sheild. You can't get upgrade pricing taking a OEB from a deathbringer. (I forget the name of that axe from Ony)

hamlet_the_lesser · 12/06/05, 10:28 AM

deathbringer it is.

Elfan · 12/06/05, 12:26 PM

So the problem is that while total earned points is fine between members of the same class, between classes its out of balance?

Then (assuming that is a problem as the warriors have already gotten more items) I suppose you are looking for a way to even the classes standing for the new cross class loot. You could try /random or a rotation to determine which class can loot an item, and then let points handle it within the class. Or if you think its important to have something more complicated keep track of "class points" for AQ in some way (to avoid low attentdance classes getting more loot per person).

Graham · 12/06/05, 12:39 PM

We do have an update forthcoming about what we're doing about this. =asically some changes to warrior weapons and how caps and resist gear interact. I'm waiting on a little clarification before i make the post.

hamlet_the_lesser · 12/06/05, 12:56 PM

I would really like if blizzard just made everything class specific and took all the talking out of it. That way there can be no moron hunters wanting thunderfury and no paladins wearing my tv antennae.

♦ Praetorian · 12/06/05, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by hamlet,December 6th, 2005 @ 12:56PM

I would really like if blizzard just made everything class specific and took all the talking out of it. That way there can be no moron hunters wanting thunderfury and no paladins wearing my tv antennae.

Yeah, just druid and warlock loot as far as the eye can see.

hamlet_the_lesser · 12/06/05, 1:01 PM

Originally Posted by Praetorian,December 6th, 2005 @ 12:59PM

Originally Posted by hamlet,December 6th, 2005 @ 12:56PM

I would really like if blizzard just made everything class specific and took all the talking out of it. That way there can be no moron hunters wanting thunderfury and no paladins wearing my tv antennae.

Yeah, just druid and warlock loot as far as the eye can see.

Isnt that all you need?

• Hamlet · 12/06/05, 2:29 PM

Originally Posted by Double-Neg,December 6th, 2005 @ 10:25AM

Warriors have 3 upgradable weapon slots, One Hander, 2 Hander, Sheild. You can't get upgrade pricing taking a OEB from a deathbringer. (I forget the name of that axe from Ony)

This doesn't agree with what was posted above about Warriors.

♦ Praetorian · 12/06/05, 2:35 PM

Yeah, Shail is wrong.

As I said above, warriors have a 1h/tank slot, a DPS slot (either a second 1h OR a 2h), and a shield slot.

And no, we don't tend to price 1h weapons any differently than 2h weapons given equal quality. Spinal Reaper is 225. Chromatically Tempered Sword is 250. Crul'shorukh is 275 (I can see a good case for making this 300). Ashkandi is 300.

• Double-Neg · 12/06/05, 3:15 PM

I'm always wrong.

It's the only thing I'm good at.

♦ Praetorian · 12/06/05, 3:20 PM

I knew there had to be something.

• Hamlet · 12/06/05, 3:21 PM

Originally Posted by Praetorian,December 6th, 2005 @ 2:35PM

Yeah, Shail is wrong.

As I said above, warriors have a 1h/tank slot, a DPS slot (either a second 1h OR a 2h), and a shield slot.

And no, we don't tend to price 1h weapons any differently than 2h weapons given equal quality. Spinal Reaper is 225. Chromatically Tempered Sword is 250. Crul'shorukh is 275 (I can see a good case for making this 300). Ashkandi is 300.

Ok. Although it doesn't chance the fact that, once a Warrior has a 2H, he's also bought himself free access to any lower-value 1H, which is the odd part.