Yeah, it just causes inflation in the system. I'd recommend you find other ways to reward people for their nonraid contributions, whether it's priority on crafted items, on raid slots when you have too many of a certain class show up, or whatever. Mixing non-raid rewards into raid DKP (much less zero-sum DKP) is a recipe for trouble in the long run.

personally I dont think you can add alot of bonuses to a zero sum DKP or you will have inflation which is very bad if you want to maintain zero sum. I like the idea and have implemented it where you hit people with a DKP fine for being a no call no show which can be distributed to those that are there. This would then maintain a zero sum :). Bonuses add inflation and if you dont have equal penalties then it will really make it hard on those that have had long hiatuses or are new to the guild.

BTW how do you RP in places such as BWL? Just curious cause I think holding strict to the RP rules would be very difficult. With how hashed out MC has become I can see it being plausible but BWL would be near on impossible.

Gotcha on the reward system, thanks for the feedback...

Also curious as to how you handle division that doesn\'t evenly divide...where to the extra points go? someone gets a little extra penalty if you are to keep it even right?

As for RP in MC...we don\'t...simple as that...EXCEPT...

The RP rules we go by is that anything used in guild/raid/party chat is out of character...anything in /say or /em or emote is in character...so we do a lot of in-character goofing off in MC, mainly because our out of character stuff is all done on ventrillo. I can hear it now...a group of LARPERS in ventrillo coordinating their MC attack strategy in-character...holy crap that would be icantspellridiculous.

ridiculous?

hehehe...whats going on with my \'s?

when you say evenly divide do you mean that each person gets exactly 1 point because well then you just go into decimals. It all adds up in the end. Go to 100ths and if people complain cause a person gets an extra 1/100th cause it would give them priority just go off the top person full points wise.

Oh and gotta love the word filters there are some fairly funny ones in there but it is frowned on to abuse the word filter.

No I mean decimals...for example...5 points divided by 3 people would give you 1.666~

Someone is going to get rounded...how do you handle that?

Just round off to 2 or 3DP. It's so close to zero-sum that it doesn't really matter.

I'm in charge of dkp for my guild. We're on a pretty new server, and have just started seriously hitting the end game. I hope I'm not being annoying by asking about something that's been trivial for months to you, but do you by any chance have a new point value for the arcanist bindings now that the resists have been removed? I understand if not, since I doubt anyone in EJ cares about them at this point. Thanks either way.

Edit: another question. Do you really use EQDKP for this? That's what I've been doing, and damn is it a pain in the ass. It wasn't built for zero sum at all. I do the majority of the math by hand, and I really would like to find a less time-intensive way.

A) No
B) Yes

Go here for an addon for EQDKP:
http://wiki.foosel.net/snippets/eqdkp?Doku...299423cdabe9fd8


It has a point burnout built into it(deals with the decimals)
And its pretty good, been using it for quite some time.


BTW Zekk From Darkspear has stolen your sister. Send 10 Cookies and a glass of whine and you shall have your dog back.

oh man sweet tag line keep it up we love that shit here.

It's rare when we change the value of an item, but it happens.

We're currently discussing a new method of pricing (and buying) items that we're going to run into while clearing AQ. It's going to take into account the various quality and desirability of the different rewards; basically what we see now with the head of Nef - 1 good reward, 2 very good rewards - where one JP value might be too high. Once we hash it out, we'll be happy to share what we've come up with.

I've got a couple more questions for you guys, if you don't mind. Feel free to tell me to gtfo if you don't want random goons asking you questions.

1) What about flameguard gaunts? I don't see them listed anywhere, but I may just be blind. Most of my guild is new to the end game, so we don't feel comfortable assigning points to things yet.

2) OMFG. My guild's first Garr kill ever: [Bindings of the Windseeker]. Given to me, because I'm MT. How the hell do we handle this DKP wise? I read you guys charge 300 dkp on completion of Sulfuras, but where does that go? Who gets the 300/40 dkp? THe people on the raid that the initial crafting component dropped? We just started MC, so it's going to be quite a while before this thing is crafted.

Aged Core Leather Gloves also if you wouldn't mind.

i hate you so so soooo much

Ack, another question because I am way too inexperienced with this type of system to forsee the ramifications of this. We recently got our first nexus crystal (shardstrike lol). One of the officers in the guild felt that some sort of dkp should still be awarded because not getting anything just because the dropped is poor sucks. His idea was this: create some fake character named Nexuscrystals in the eqdkp database. Every time we get a nexus crystal, subtract 10 dkp from the fake character and give everyone present 10 divided by 40 dkp. Then, if someone wants to withdraw a nexus crystal from the guild bank for an enchant, transfer 10 dkp from them to Nexuscrystals, keeping everything at zero sum.

Like I said, I'm way too inexperienced to forsee the ramifications of this, but it just doesn't sound good at all. My gut reaction is that this is going to massively fuck up the balance of zero-sum, but I don't understand the underlying math well enough to be able to back this up. Thoughts?

It won't break your DKP at all.

That said, I think it's a massive hassle. When we first heard about the changes, I decided that it'd make sense to treat Crystals the same as we do Cores. Nominal DKP value for each, you buy them from the guild bank when you need something made. But then 1.9 took forever to come out, and now we have hundreds of crystals hoarded already, and more coming in every single day. There just isn't any need to use DKP to track them in the long run, and it'd just add an administrative annoyance. On our server they're down to selling for 90g on the auction house. If you can buy something for 90g, it probably doesn't need a DKP value, as a general rule. Would you charge DKP for a blood of the mountain or a righteous orb?

Just a query with regards to downgrades/sidegrades and how to charge for them, as I'm not 100% sure I'm implementing this in the intended way.

Obviously Tier 1 > Tier 2 is easy, as is something like Manastorm Leggings > Prophecy Leggings because it's an obvious upgrade. But what if all warlocks have a Felheart Belt, and a Sash of Whispered Secrets drops. How would that be handled in your system? Full price? Half price? Free?

Also, is DKP value the only attribute used to ascertain whether or not something is classed as an upgrade? For instance can a warrior with a Helm of Endless Rage take a Helm of Wrath for free because it's a bit cheaper, even though it's used for a very different role? Or do you only offer free downgrades for Tier 1 gear when people already have Tier 2? In which case how much should Mr HoER have to pay for his Wrath?

It's only been an issue on one raid so far and I thought I had the system all down, but then a couple of items dropped and I wasn't totally sure how to handle them. First a Ring of Spell Power dropped which no-one wanted at full price. I offered it at upgrade price and the only person to bid had a Dragonslayer's Signet and a Seal of the Archmagus, both of which have the same value as Spell Power. So should he have got it for free? And if so, surely I would have to let other people know, seeing as others would have wanted it for free. I was pretty sure that wasn't what I was meant to do, and I gave it to him for half price rounded down to the nearest 25. The same thing happened later with a Mana Igniting Cord when all the bidders had Arcanist.

If it's an item of lower value (I'm feeling much to ill to check) it would be offered as a free downgrade if no one would be play JP for it.

Basically the same thing applies to your second senario, but I think HoER is less than Wrath, or it should be.

Again free downgrades are handle interclass, so you hopefully have class channels in your guild where loot can be discussed and decided on within the class. Sometimes a class will deceide to just /random for it, other times you can come to a consensus on who should take it. Last ditch is just letting the person with the highest JP pick it up as a free downgrade.

For the ring you'd definatly have to let everyone know that they still can pay JP on the ring at upgrade or full if they so want it. Then let everyone who can get it for free figure out an agreement.

(Gurg can feel free to correct me where I'm wrong, because no doubt I am)

HoER is an upgrade from Wrath in our system (in a perfect world they'd be the same price but every warrior in our guild had Wrath before we saw our first HoER so whatever, had to bend the rules a little).

Anyway, if an item is a DKP downgrade then it's free. If the only people who want it want it for free, then they /random for it or, fairly often, work it out via mutual agreement.