Hello, im a fury warrior, have been a fury warrior for a damn long time, but in the past couple of weeks i have been absolutely perplexed by a situation in my guild. As i said, im fury, 2 ms warriors in my guild have just recently got dark edge(we got 2 in 2 weeks), both of them are orc, i am undead. These two warriors I used to absolutely destroy in damage meters, and now i have to try extremely hard and pot more than usual to stay ahead, very slightly ahead. Here's the kicker, one of them picked up a spinal reaper(up from a bone reavers) not too long ago, and was catching up to me, this bothered me, and launched a very heated argument in our warrior channel about how +weapon skill racial adds far too much damage.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, my current gear is :

http://ctprofiles.net/284882

I want to know if i should use expert goldminer's helm + edgemaster's for bosses, i have been trying it out on a few bosses, and would like to know what i need to do to finally push my dps up and over what im currently doing.

Small note, im trying to make a LH helm, but all of my money right now is going straight into naxx repairs and consumables.

Thanks ^_^

Looking at your gear, for raw pve dps I'd say your best/easiest upgrades are DFT, lionheart, and I guess a better ring :P

Having been fury for so long and collected that kind of gear, you're really doing yourself an injustice by not having a lionheart.

Edgemaster's would be a minimal upgrade I think, by looking at it on paper, but you're probably better off running the numbers through a spreadsheet.

You should probably also mention playstyle - what method do you use to dps? Spamstring + BT + imp OP? Imp cleave? etc etc. Cause really, with that gear, a good spec, and a good playstyle, you should be unstoppable.

Edgemaster is a must for you at boss fight and LH helm is a lot better than what u have now .
Also 2h pretty much > dw at AE pulls.
Get recap and you will see there is a huge different between ms and dw fury at single target dps.

Well, as far as the trinket, hard to acquire, we started doing bwl again for the first time last week(we stopped as soon as we got to c'thun, haven't been back since last week), should be getting it soon. The ring is just the most horrible string of bad luck EVER(should have seen my other ring /sigh, good thing head of nef is 100% drop rate), i should have enough money to fund the rest of my LH helm this week(doing the isle of dread quest cause i finally got Broodlord head, gonna sell the recipe).

Ok, so playstyle, i usually start every fight off with a Fetish + Deathwish(so deathwish can come back up sooner). I ALWAYS make sure i have enough rage for bloodthirst and whirlwind as soon as its up, if i see overpower(i do have improved) i wait for bloodthirst, hit bloodthirst, shift to battle, and hit the overpower. If i get up to 43 rage, i use heroic strike(in case i get a couple misses, gotta make sure i have enough for bloodthirst), i usually do not use cleave, dont really have an issue with aggro(good tanks rule, gogo). But yea, that should be a decent run down of my everyday dps. Oh, also, i often save the second fetish/deathwish for execute spammage.

I just dont understand how/why i am being caught by warriors whom i find to be so much less geared than me, and i do believe that, to a large degree, its because of their racial.

edit - Lol, grats on not spelling acquire right.

Ya, i know, i check recap often and notice their WW damage is far superior to mine. Also, on fight's like maexxna, when i see the 5 second till spider spawn, i swap to a big twohander and whirlwind as soon as the spiders spawn(helps pad dps and kill the spiders faster).

Edit : Also, should i just use ONLY edgemasters and keep the lionheart helm or use edgemasters AND goldminer's?

I can't see the profile since I'm at work, but for a rogue, +weapon skill let me run over 600 dps with a fang of the faceless

If your getting outdamaged by the DEoI MS warriors is a matter of your gear, meaning that you both have the same buffs and that you both play the ideal way to maximize your dps, then my thoughts on the gear you should change/use are these:

1) Lionheart should be your No1 prio. Conqueror offers rather poor dps-wise stats, whereas LH will give u a valuable +2%hit and 1,1% more crit. Goldminer's helm wont help your dps, because you will be losing too much damage on your special attacks, that cannot glance anyway, and i even doubt that your white damage will profit as well. Goldminer's low level quality cannot compensate for the stats a LH provides.

2) The question Edgemaster VS annihilation is rather a mathematic issue. Check your recap to see what percentage(%) of your total damage output comes from white damage. Then, you can use the formulas that show you the damage loss from glancing, so that you compare the white damage you will gain from edgemasters versus the damage you gain from the annihilation gloves' stats. If the question was edgemasters vs flameguards, i would strongly recommend edgemasters, but annihilation gloves offer far more stats and +hit that u also need, so i cant be that certain about changing them.

3) Make sure your critical is enough to keep your flurry up almost all of the time. If its not, then use pots to make up for it.

4) Consider using HoJ. Its among the best pre-naxxramas trinkets for dps warriors. And a new ring would be nice too;)

Windfury is the real difference. If you used the same gear with alliance you would completely smoke the 2h warriors, Windfury just benefits 2h so much more. Combine that with the Orc racial and thats pretty much why you're in that situation. I often resign myself to using BRE hamstring spam as it just creates so much damn Windfury DPS. As for Edgemaster's, yeah surprised you aren't using them already. Check out Deathwing's spreadsheet model on these forums if you haven't already.

With your current setup, a goldminer's helm would help more than edgemasters. Your helm, as already mentioned, is not ideal, but your current gloves are, so you should replace the helm for +skill before your gloves. If you get a lionheart, your helm becomes better so stick with edgemasters.

Once this is done, just resign yourself to the fact that 2H weapons benefit a ton from windfury, and orcs benefit a ton from axes.

Rune of the guard captain is shit and does not belong on that profile. +1 to hit by itself is not very good you know. Try to get at least the hand of justice? Farmable, there are ways to do emperor fast with 3 peoples apparently. Even if you get the drake fang talisman, hoj is still better then blackhand and will benefit you more.

A priest with holy nova and a warrior at that gearlevel can smoke BRD pretty reliably.

I'm not alliance, but I've heard that at extreme levels of gear, a faster mainhand is the way to go, due to HS spam with a sub 2.0 weapon being more efficient than WW when aggro is not an issue.

HS spam, even with blessing of salavation, will get you killed, and will get you killed fast.

I'd say an "average" speed would probably work the best for alliance. Something not too slow but not too fast, like 2-2.20speed.
There's good weapons out of naxx, CTS, Crul, AQR. Only crul fits in the speed limit, but I think just having 2 good weapons will do the job. It's important to note that with slow weapons, you can take improved cleave and use that as a rage dump instead of HS. It's still way worse in terms of rage efficiency, but it generates way less threat too.

Also, if you use a HoJ, and a fast offhand, you'll get decent HoJ procs with a slow MH.

HS spam with salvation won't get you killed, as long as your tanks are good. Cleave generates extra threat as well, it's just harder to notice because it's so much more inefficient in terms of damage/rage. You're better off spamming Hamstring--even as Allianc--than Imp Cleave.

I think this is worth emphasizing. With the buff to Shield Slam, a prot tank with 5/5 Defiance, Shield Slam, 2% threat on gloves enchant, and a solid grasp on how to play can definitely hold aggro over even an exceptionally well-geared fury warrior nowadays, so long as the tank is being fed his rage well and the fury warrior has his blessing or totem. Most of the bosses in Naxx hit hard enough to keep the tank full on rage, and the ones that don't usually feature a mechanic so that the warrior will have to periodically leave the target.

Just look at the Patchwerk screenshots and the Patchwerk Aggro video - there is no magic script effect preventing someone from pulling aggro, but Patchwerk feeds the tank so much rage it's almost like having Essence of the Red on your tank. If a horde warrior can sustain 800+ dps on a Patchwerk kill, HS spam isn't as big an issue on most fights in Naxx as it used to be.

Another question, would using just Bloodthirst/whirlwind/overpower/hamstring(all of my extra rage on hamstring) be an increase on dps if i have windfury?

To proc Flurry, presumably.

Well if you don't have imp cleave, using cleave for single target dps is silly and you'd be better off just doing nothing. If you have imp cleave, you're spending 20 rage and giving up the rage you would have gotten from your next swing in exchange for 110 damage, a decreased miss rate, and the chance for a bit of bonus damage if you have impale.

So, let's be generous and say that imp cleave is worth 200 damage at a cost of only 30 rage.

Hamstring usually hits for somewhere between 30 and 40, and can crit for up to 100 on rare occasions. Let's say it averages 35 damage at a cost of 10 rage (can be less with pvp gear on, but let's assume not). That gets us 6.7 dpr for imp cleave and 3.5 dpr for hamstring.

However, the purpose of using these things is mostly to get a tiny bit more damage out of rage that would otherwise be wasted, so using an ability that is a giant waste of rage doesn't really seem to be what we're after.

Using a 10 rage ability is less likely to hamper your ability to use your bread and butter abilities. Also, hamstring does not take up a white swing, is one more chance to proc flurry, can be used simultaneously with HS, and can proc windfury if available.

Imp cleave's only non-damage advantage is a reduced miss rate, but hamstring has that same advantage, and doesn't prevent normal rage generation.

My two cents.

Hamstring can also light up overpower and proc your main hand weapon if you have a TF / servo arm / DB.

Ok, update, we just got our first patchwerk kill. With my regular cycle that i described above, i got 310k damage done to patchwerk, #1 on dps, i think im going to keep what im doing up.

310k? Doesn't that come out to something like 1000dps?

860 or so, assuming they took the full 6 minutes.