Looking at rogue talents in 1.12, there are several places that I'm not sure where the best place to put points are for combat dagger and sword builds.

In the assasination tree:
Murder, Improved Evis, Ruthlessness (assuming it is still unlinked from relentlessness), Full lethality

In combat:
Where do you spend your tier 3 points? Riposte or no? Adrenaline rush?

And in general: how many points into combat, - how many into Assasination?

If you were spec'ing to be the best end game PVE DPS rogue you could be, how would you go about doing it? (For purposes of this discussion lets define end game as people at the end of AQ40, and the start of Naxx)

How would you build for daggers and how would you build for Swords?

- Dagger A: 15/31/5 -
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=n0gcoLZMIVb0Ez0roV
In combat, the points in Endurance, Aggression, and the first tier can be placed anywhere.
In assassination, the points in the second tier can be shuffled around a little.


- Dagger B: 16/28/5 +2 -
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=n0gcoxZMIVb0Ez0bZV
You drop AR, pick up the 5th point in lethality, and have 2 points left over to drop in slight of hand or whatever you want. This build will be much less popular, but a few people might pick it up.

Your combat line up for a backstab rogue makes absolutely no sense to me, most backstab rogues dont take improved sinister strike and I don't see much of a reason to take aggression with out improved eviscerate. Here is a link to what my 1.12 spec will probably look like.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=y0xfoLZhfVbMEz0boV

It's irrelevant for raids. I'd rather farm slightly better than get an extended gouge or have sprint break snares or gain a few % to dodge/parry. It doesn't matter at all, which is why I qualified the build directly under it.

Did I miss something? Last I heard Expose would *not* be stacking with Sunder, despite Drysc's(WRU??) original assertation that it would. He posted later that day or the next that he was mistaken.

edit: Just went and looked, it is stacking on Test right now. So sweet=)

http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?p..._id=0&warned=y

But it's back down to flat -armor, no % based.

It's stacking on the test realm right now, and back to a static armor reduction instead of a percentage. I'd wager it's a bug but they haven't said either way since the last change.

I will never play a build without Imp SS. Having a guaranteed ability every 4 seconds is invaluable compared to a sometimes ability every 4 seconds. Farming/Soloing in particular, but also in certain raid situations where combo points are superior to damage.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jhxroxZMhEz0Vzxfo

Thats me, most likely. Might drop SnD for Imp Sprint. Yes, I PvP a lot, and will PvP a alot more post patch.

Might be better to drop 2 out of Lethality (doesn't help swords as much), if you want imp Spirit.

The 10 gains of honor per person limit instead of just 4 kills will be a nice change, and of course allowing more HWs/GMs per server.

Actually it just means it require more CP to rank up. It doesn't change the process of ranking up, or the number of people at X rank.

You may be right on the first part, but your second statement has been mentioned ny blue posts. The CMs said that the amount of CP to get rank will be made broader. Not sure what that means, but I guess that it means more people can be X rank.

Unfortunalty honor isn't calculated on the Test server, so no way to know what there new numbers are at.

It really doesn't matter to me, I don't PvP for rank. I got FM last summer (and I'm still loving the armor, dunno why people don't like it) and chose to pursue other things rather than go for GM. Since then I have barely looked at my rank. I still PvP a lot though, and I'll enjoy playing against other teams from other realms.

Dropping Imp. SS is a poor move, especially when you consider fights such as Thaddius.

They never specified how, but, the best way for them to accomplish it is to change the amout of decay from 20%, down to say, 18-19%. Although they've said they won't do this.

Easily. Relentless Strikes is an energy talent -> grab as many of those as possible. Free SnDs make for a much better combat dagger cycle.

Realistically how much DPS is a dagger rogue lossing in this situation. Are we assuming he has a suitable sword to switch to? Rogues who tend to switch builds mayhave that, but for people that have been daggers since MC that may not be an option. Is the solution then to pick up the next Viskag when it drops and make a macro? Otherwise I dont really see justifying SS for the encounter, your going to be doing very poor damage SS'ing with your death's sting anways (granted youll SS for about the same as a TF rogue).

I think Chalon is refering to the fact that on Thaddius you have to move around if you get a different polarity shift, and may not be able to do do a BS while moving to the other side.

Sure you are losing DPS using SS with a dagger, but it is better than not using your energy.

About the swordbuilds there are a few tough choices imo.
For PURE PVE endgame swordrogues:

Lightening reflexes vs imp gouge? (Dont think ive ever gouged in naxx so fairly easy choice)

Ruthlessness vs imp evisc? (This one is a toughie... not sure if imp evisc is more dps, but its cooler, benefits from agression and is linked to the bonescythe setbonuses)

Deflection vs Lightening reflexes (Can u parry a cleave? whats best of these 2?)

After going 17.32.0 i have 2 talenpoints left... (assume i chose imp evisc over ruthlessness)
Imp kick vs ruthlessness vs poisons vs EA (toughie, imp kick is mostly used on cthun, dont remember it sliencing feks the noth spawns, poisons are getting gimped as i go away from 3 bf, not to mention +100 ud ap-stones are better?, and that ive stopped poisoning mainhand but go with WF, considering i dont wanna be the local EA gimp, i guess its only ruthlessness left...)

Looks like ill end up here:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jhgcoxZMhE00Vzxfo

Kalman made an Energy cycle spreadsheet (in the Rogue DPS calculator threat) that can answer that question for your gear. Generally Ruthlessness is better, but it may be different for what you are wearing.

Parry is always better than Dodge, since parry hastes your autoattack (And doesn't allow Overpower in PvP).

Is there anything in AQ40 or Naxx that would justify picking up these talents?

Can cleaves be parried?

Stunning and silencing find a lot more use in Naxx than they have in any other raid zone. It isn't much, and it isn't every fight, but there's definitely something to be said for rogue "utility" on nearly any boss that involves adds in some form.

For purely PVE Swords purposes this is the spec I'm looking at

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jhxcoxoZMhEz0Vzxfo

Imp Poisons looks to add about 3 dps per talent point per Valar/Chalon's spreadsheet. I'm going for the static dps increase vs. the 20% chance to gain 1 extra cp. Granted that's only 1 talent point left over. The rest is pretty standard.