[Rogue] MH mace, OH sword, swordspecc, OH proccs=?

exog · 08/08/06, 5:45 AM

Sorry for the cryptic topic:)

Anyways, the naxx sword itemization is kinda bothering, if you get a AQR youre gonna have to wait until Kel'thuzad to get a better mainhander (gee haww, horay).

Servo arm becomes an alternative mainhander with its superior dps, so im wondering what happens if you have MSA/iblis and swordspecc...

Afaik, OH swordspecc proccs trigger mainhand swings (or swingtimer resets), does this mean that if the OH does a swordprocc, the MSA does the hit? Or doesnt anything happen, it is a mace afterall...

As usual when i write a question on forums I realize that i see the answer while writing... Fuck swords, get daggers or dual servos until you have Kel'thuzad on farm.

Anyways ill make a comparison of best weapons pre Kel'thuzad:

Swords:
AQR/Iblis 58,4+62,8= 121,2 dps
The castigator/MSA 65,4+65,4= 130,8 dps
DS/HoB 66,4+65,3= 131,7 dps

Strange itemization indeed, not to mention that daggerspecc = <3 and macespecc = 2 free talent pts, while swordspecc gets servercalculated extraattacks.

Grimmlokk · 08/08/06, 7:18 AM

Unless it's been changed OH sword spec procs trigger MH swings regardless of MH weapon.

I had AQR/Pugio and picked up a MSA. Figured the 7dps difference would easily make up for the lack of sword spec. Then I found the spreadsheets. Listed as only ~3dps upgrade with my gear. Pretty disappointing. I *really* hope I can find somewhere to put the 2 extra points I get in 1.12(from not needing Weapon Expertise) that will make up for the lack of a Sword Spec type proc.

Mem · 08/08/06, 7:29 AM

First of all: dual servos will underperform when compared to offhanding pugio or iblis or another comparable OH weapon at the moment. I haven't done any calculation on how + 5 mace skill will impact on this one. Furthermore after 1.12 it doesn't make sense not to spec mace spec if you do wield a MSA due to the +5 mace skill. Neither is speccing sword spec, mace spec and weapon mastery attractive.
My personal view on weapon itemisation and my personal course of perfect upgrades will be:
MSA -pugio (actual weps) -> HC - Claw of the Frostwyrm. The only upgrade I might take is either iblis oder hod, if nobody else needs it. Else these upgrade are not significant enough to spend dkp on it imho.

Grimmlokk · 08/08/06, 7:38 AM

Exact boat I'm in. Would Castigator be worth it OH over Pugio?

Also, what is HC?

exog · 08/08/06, 7:43 AM

Originally Posted by Mem

First of all: dual servos will underperform when compared to offhanding pugio or iblis or another comparable OH weapon at the moment. I haven't done any calculation on how + 5 mace skill will impact on this one.

Well, im talking about speccs with 1.12 talents. Also it can be debated if aqr/iblis/swordspecc/weapexp will outperform tc/msa/macespecc with its 10 more dps, 2 free talent points and the stunprocc.

Originally Posted by Mem

Furthermore after 1.12 it doesn't make sense not to spec mace spec if you do wield a MSA due to the +5 mace skill.

Yes it does, very much so, especially if you have 2 maces. Guessing you meant "weap exp" where you wrote "mace spec".

Also whats this HC weapon you talk about?

Mem · 08/08/06, 7:46 AM

HC = hungering cold....its now gressil I guess... well if you read the quoted sentence again, you will see, that we agree on this one :) Imho the castigator will be a close call. At the moment it doesn't work out that well...but that might change in 1.12.

exog · 08/08/06, 7:56 AM

Actually in all my calculations/loot-plans i totally disregard any Kel'thuzad loot, that goes for Sapphiron too.

This is because im confident it will take quite some time to get the kill. Therefore im looking at what loot to get when we approach Kel'thuzad.

If we assume a character with 8/9 bonsecythe, sticking with the 58dps ripper just doesnt seem very viable. Id be surprised if that would outperform a Death's Sting/HoD or The Castigator/MSA/MSA variation.

Also the dps spreadsheets that circulate the net usually assume a little bit here and a little bit there, so although they can point in a certain direction, i wouldnt bet my life on their results.

Mem · 08/08/06, 8:06 AM

Originally Posted by exog

Actually in all my calculations/loot-plans i totally disregard any Kel'thuzad loot, that goes for Sapphiron too.

Smart thinking :) But for this reason I will concentrate on other upgrades before snatching another melee wep.

Lilias · 09/15/06, 9:23 AM

Originally Posted by Grimmlokk

Unless it's been changed OH sword spec procs trigger MH swings regardless of MH weapon.

Sorry for bumping a thread as old as this one, but I've been wondering about the very same thing for quite a while now. Are there any _confirmed_ statements proving it right? And if there are, how many patches have they suffered through until now? I do remember a thread in the official forums about OH Procs resetting the MH Swing timer, so I'm pretty sure there's gotta be someone who parsed his Logs about MH Procs with weapons other than Swords triggered by an OH Sword as well.
Just didn't find anything yet. ;)

Anyone care to share?

Wong-Fei-Hung · 09/15/06, 9:42 AM

Originally Posted by exog

Originally Posted by Mem

First of all: dual servos will underperform when compared to offhanding pugio or iblis or another comparable OH weapon at the moment. I haven't done any calculation on how + 5 mace skill will impact on this one.

Well, im talking about speccs with 1.12 talents. Also it can be debated if aqr/iblis/swordspecc/weapexp will outperform tc/msa/macespecc with its 10 more dps, 2 free talent points and the stunprocc.

Originally Posted by Mem

Furthermore after 1.12 it doesn't make sense not to spec mace spec if you do wield a MSA due to the +5 mace skill.

Yes it does, very much so, especially if you have 2 maces. Guessing you meant "weap exp" where you wrote "mace spec".

Also whats this HC weapon you talk about?

Wep Exp is for Swords, Daggers and Fist weapons.

Mace spec has +5 maces built in :)

Kalman · 09/15/06, 1:31 PM

I can't find the proof, but yes, there is proof that OH sword swings proc MH attacks on sword spec proc, even if the MH isn't a sword.

maxpowers · 09/15/06, 3:58 PM

Originally Posted by Kalman

I can't find the proof, but yes, there is proof that OH sword swings proc MH attacks on sword spec proc, even if the MH isn't a sword.

Sorry that this is offtopic, but i just saw kalmans avatar, and it made me think of: http://www.tshirthell.com/shirts/pro.../a647_a_32.jpg

Lilias · 09/16/06, 4:32 AM

Originally Posted by Kalman

I can't find the proof, but yes, there is proof that OH sword swings proc MH attacks on sword spec proc, even if the MH isn't a sword.

Always nice to hear, just not confirming anything. : /

Nurru · 09/16/06, 6:36 AM

Seems odd that people complain they wait so long from getting an AQR when there are no fist upgrades since Firemaw and Claw of the Black Drake.

deric · 09/16/06, 7:51 AM

Originally Posted by Nurru

Seems odd that people complain they wait so long from getting an AQR when there are no fist upgrades since Firemaw and Claw of the Black Drake.

That's because swords and fists offer the same playstyle and are for the most part inter-changeable as long as (two of) either are available.

Maces too play the same way but suffer from a terrible weapon specialisation which results in gems like a Thaddius drop being strictly inferior (in terms of dps) to a Fankriss drop.