vorda

I read the previous topic about this, but it didnt really clear my doubts..

I'm trying to convince my guild to craft this and put some warrior on proc duty but I'm not that certain if its worth it.. I read you used it on patchwerk, how high is the debuff priority and is it worth to make for a guild that is about halfway AQ? (we are on a raiding break these 2 months, too many burnouts otherwise :P )

thx for the advice,
vorda


ps: the way I see it, it is a weapon that can up the raids dps by alot if your mages are not having too many troubles watching their agro.

 

Exewut

I would gues the usefullness of this weapon depends for 100% on the makeup of your raid.
are you magicheavy (alot of locks, mages, moonkins (I just had to)) then it's more than likely worth it, even for the 5*6 raids it is.

Ask me about obscure politicians.

 

Xian-Ti

Afraid can't provide you with figures just yet but although being nowhere near Patchwerk (ha, just killing Sartura would be nice), I guess you could say I've taken Gurgthock's DPS > All philosophy to heart of late and persuaded my GM to get some made so next week will be our first using one. There's nothing we're facing at the moment that truly needs it but I suggested it both as a means to improve performance now and for the long term when we might well need every advantage we can get. Better to have one and not need it than need it and not have one, etc.

Our MT doesn't agree, mainly I think due to the cost of all the mats to hit exalted and then make them when a few of the other tanks still want some Dark Iron gear but we've never really had a problem with Vaelastrasz so I really can't see a desperate need to increase their (or anyone elses) FR further. If the mats are just sitting in your bank and/or potentially going into someone's bag to come out for 10 minutes a week for 2 fights you already have on farm, you may as well go for it if you already have someone at Revered and with a profession that's already covered in the guild.

We're typically going to be looking at having 11-12 damage casters per raid so if it makes 3 procs a minute as figures seem to suggest, I'd argue it's well worth the effort. Plus, if you're one of/the only people around who can make it, you may find you have others queuing up to buy one from you.

 

◊ Praetorian

We finally made one two days ago. It's too early to say for sure, but it seems promising. My estimates have the proc on the weapon being worth ~100 raidwide DPS sustained. Since using Nightfall instead of a better 2h isn't going to cost your warrior 100 DPS, it's a net gain in situations where casters are focusing on one specific mob. It's not going to revolutionize your raid DPS or anything, but it's a nice boost.

 

subscience

What's your guys' average Warlock/Mage turnout? We tend to have at least 10-12 combined per raid.

 

◊ Praetorian

8-9 total. Maybe 10. Never more than 10.

 

• Arawethion

We've debated the merits of giving one to a Warrior or Paladin. Warrior gives a higher procrate, but against his own DPS tradeoff. On, say, C'Thun vulns, you'd rather have a Paladin or even two beating away. But on Patchwerk, where the Paladin's time represents important raid utility, giving it to a Warr is probably better.

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

Zagzil

Just curious, we've been theorycrafting about this axe for a while but have been unable to find someone able to make it, but a few questions;

What is the proc rate? I have seen 10%, but I question the accuracy.
Does the proc stack, or refresh itself?

Finally, do you see any value in letting an enhancement Shaman melee with the axe in a raid DPS situation? We've theorycrafted it out but still aren't sure of the proc rate.

 

• Fogbug

as a 2H fury warrior I can maintain around 4.5 procs a second on a sustained melee fight like loatheb. The proc doesn't stack (though I do wonder if it would with 2 nightfall wielding meleers) but it does refresh itself

giving it to an enhancement shaman or paladin probably wouldn't be worth it, though. Even in fights where they can melee nonstop they wouldn't be able to make it proc nearly as much as a warrior

 

tenarius

Wow 4.5 procs a second

 

• Fogbug

ya windfury is sweet

it's actually more like 3.5 procs a minute, the 4.5 number comes from our loatheb kill where I had procwatch set up to watch for "vulnerability" which returned results for "spell vulnerability" (the nightfall debuff) as well as some other things and I just realized this

my previous tests with windfury put it at around 3.2-3.5 a minute most of the time

 

Fiola

I acquired this axe a few weeks ago, and it seems to proc every 6~7 swings. (Using ProcWatch) This corresponds to roughly 3ppm. (Swing speed of 3.5 seconds, 1 proc every 21~24.5 sec)

3ppm would give a 17.5% chance to proc per hit.

 

mnemus

lol *hand flies over head* shoooooom

 

• Montantu

http://www.thottbot.com/?i=40828

Nightfall
Binds when equipped
Two-Hand Axe
187 - 282 Damage Speed 3.50
(67.0 damage per second)
Durability 120 / 120
Requires Level 60
Chance on hit: Spell damage taken by target increased by 15% for 5 sec.

8x Lava Core
5x Fiery Core
10x Arcanite Bar
12x Dark Iron Bar
4x Huge Emerald

 

Falcon24

I really liked this on Loatheb last night. Seeing my crits jump from 3k to 3500 is very satisfying.

 

Northerner

I believe the **shooooom** was for the typo of 4.5 procs per SECOND.

 

Fiola

Hax!


I'm still waiting for my guild's DPS casters to notice the proc. . . = P

ie: <Nightfall proc>
Random caster: "zomg, crit record!"
Me: /flex

 

subscience

^ How would you say the proc rate feels like as a Paladin? Do you use Seal of the Crusader or generally stick with Wisdom?

 

• frmorrison

As a pally, you would judge wisdom or light, then best practice would be to use Seal of the Crusader (Attack 40% faster, but hit for less than normal).

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

subscience

Ah, so Judging Wisdom/Light then switching to Crusader will keep Wisdom/Light refreshed?

 

Illian

Correct. When they did the Paladin changes they made the Paladin's melee hits refresh the timer of any Judgement he puts on a mob. Unless the Paladin gets feared (Nef), blown off (Broodlord) or otherwise can't reach the mob (Onyxia stage 2), a Judgement will stay on indefinitely.

 

◊ Drauk

Try this http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/a...ity-alert.html

:)

Fun is for casuals

 

subscience

Thanks for clearing that up for me, Illian. :) It definitely makes the axe a bit more appealing.

 

Fiola

Procrate is decent, I'll see the debuff regularly on any fight that lasts more than 30 seconds.


As for SotC, I've been trying to test that using ProcWatch. My impression is that it doesn't boost the proc rate. ProcWatch says I get 1 proc every 12~13 swings when using SotC, instead of 1 proc per 6~7 swings. (This needs more testing though.)


I actually use SoC(R1/R5) when meleeing, unless I need mana. I'm not sure about SoC procs, but Judgement of Command can trigger weapon procs. This was tested on the paladin forums a little while ago: someone faced away from a mob and used damage judgements only, and had a screenshot of Crusader proccing. Using ProcWatch's notification option, I've personally seen Nightfall procs follow a JoR/JoC.


So your Nightfall-adin would be wanting to use a damage seal if they wanted to maximize the Nightfall proc. (For me, it was just a personal purchase with the guild's blessing. = P )

 

GoG

I'm sure you are going to laugh at me, but wouldn't it be better served on an enhancement shaman, you won't lose warrior dps and you get one more attack from your windfury procs to proc the nightfall?

Gog the Shaman
Ferall the Warrior
Orthrus the Warlock