We finally made one two days ago. It's too early to say for sure, but it seems promising. My estimates have the proc on the weapon being worth ~100 raidwide DPS sustained. Since using Nightfall instead of a better 2h isn't going to cost your warrior 100 DPS, it's a net gain in situations where casters are focusing on one specific mob. It's not going to revolutionize your raid DPS or anything, but it's a nice boost.
I'm sure you are going to laugh at me, but wouldn't it be better served on an enhancement shaman, you won't lose warrior dps and you get one more attack from your windfury procs to proc the nightfall?
Not if your shaman is supposed to be casting heals.
My question is if nightfall procs like other weapons, as in whether it proc's off specials such as hamstring and such. We have a couple prot spec'd warriors, and I'd imagine it'd probably be best used in the hands of the one who isn't MT'ing single boss fights, so you don't lose the 2H dps from your MS warrior, and the prot spec can just sit there and do hamstring spams to proc it as much as possible.
We finally made one two days ago. It's too early to say for sure, but it seems promising. My estimates have the proc on the weapon being worth ~100 raidwide DPS sustained. Since using Nightfall instead of a better 2h isn't going to cost your warrior 100 DPS, it's a net gain in situations where casters are focusing on one specific mob. It's not going to revolutionize your raid DPS or anything, but it's a nice boost.
I'm sure you are going to laugh at me, but wouldn't it be better served on an enhancement shaman, you won't lose warrior dps and you get one more attack from your windfury procs to proc the nightfall?
Maybe, but a Warrior is always attacking, isn't the shaman going to be healing now and then? In addition to this it seems to be a PPM effect as opposed to a pure percentile chance proc.
I remember reading that hamstring cannot proc the nightfall effect
nope, it definitely can
there's a *lot* of misinformation on forums about nightfall, that's why it took so long to make one. For awhile on test no procs were proccing anything, which is why I thought the axe was nerfed in 1.12, but in actuality anything that can proc crusader or maelstrom trinket or what have you will also proc nightfall
If it procs off of specials, I think it'd be excellent in the hands of a protection off-tank who is spamming sunder armor to build secondary hate.
Definitely, though war > paladin/shaman, regardless of build. Wars hit more frequently and therefore have a higher proc rate - and generally paladins or shamans interrupt their attacks for significant portions of the fight to cast healing spells - further reducing the proc rate.
In any fight where you're using a 'utility' war (demo/tc, etc), you may as well put that war on nightfall duty.
If it procs off of specials, I think it'd be excellent in the hands of a protection off-tank who is spamming sunder armor to build secondary hate
actually I don't think sunder sets off procs. it'll be easy to test though, I'll do that right now
edit: after 10 minutes of sundering and meleeing things in EPL the only thing that ever set off nightfall or crusader is my white damage. Sunder can proc the 5piece wrath bonus but that's it
I think this'd be great for a Shaman on Noth/C'thun. Even if you're full resto, all you gotta do is whack with it whenever you can right? And there's certainly plenty of Shaman whacking in those fights.
I think this'd be great for a Shaman on Noth/C'thun. Even if you're full resto, all you gotta do is whack with it whenever you can right? And there's certainly plenty of Shaman whacking in those fights.
well it couldn't hurt, but the materials are a little pricey
We finally made one two days ago. It's too early to say for sure, but it seems promising. My estimates have the proc on the weapon being worth ~100 raidwide DPS sustained. Since using Nightfall instead of a better 2h isn't going to cost your warrior 100 DPS, it's a net gain in situations where casters are focusing on one specific mob. It's not going to revolutionize your raid DPS or anything, but it's a nice boost.
We've used one at Patchwerk on one day, didn't end up killing him then(yay for maintenance day lag) but we had a few frost mages at 680-690 DPS iirc at a 30% try when the best I've seen from a frost mage before has been 630 or so. I didn't save the data anywhere, but the gain seemed to definately be far more than 100DPS. Once we go there again with the Nightfall bitch warrior in raid I'll record the data properly and compare it to our non-Nightfall Patchwerk data.
We sucked it up and paid about 7000g worth of materials to boost an Axesmith from revered to exalted (at least she was already revered or it'd have been 10k+) to get some of these made and we definitely haven't come to regret it. While we tend not to focus on damage meters a lot, it seems like a solid increase for raid DPS, particularly when all the raid is focusing one target such as at Patchwerk or C'thun weakenings.
We made 3 and tend to use 2 at a time though that more seems to be a product of one of the warriors typically offtanking. It generally seems that a warrior is better off DPS'ing with that weapon than anything else, even if we already have 1-2 warriors NF-bitching.
We're crafting them for 500g + mats at the moment to recover from the hit our guild bank took but haven't really bothered advertising yet, since it just means harder competition in the Naxx race. ;)
Edit: Oh and ~18% procrate sounds pretty realistic though I haven't heard what it came out to for the warriors when their test samples went into the high numbers.
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Judging from the numbers Gurg posted (~100dps raidwide), I used Deathwing's model and tried dropping to Nightfall from Ashkandi in my current gear and it was a drop of 60dps. Upping my gear level to what a Naxx raiding DPS warrior might have it was still roughly a 60dps decrease.
Just seems like an expensive raidwide 40dps increase if that is the case, but every little helps. These days it's pretty rare to find a crafted item thats an improvement for DPS.
thx alot everyone (especially fogbug, who I will prolly bug some day in pm's with some specific questions :) )! mats are no prob I think, and we usually got a few OT's with alot of spare time I would say, so that should be no prob aswell.
If it procs off of specials, I think it'd be excellent in the hands of a protection off-tank who is spamming sunder armor to build secondary hate
actually I don't think sunder sets off procs. it'll be easy to test though, I'll do that right now
edit: after 10 minutes of sundering and meleeing things in EPL the only thing that ever set off nightfall or crusader is my white damage. Sunder can proc the 5piece wrath bonus but that's it
Just to confirm- it's only proccing off a normal attack? Or does it proc off of specials like Heroic Strike or Mortal Strike?
If it procs off of specials, I think it'd be excellent in the hands of a protection off-tank who is spamming sunder armor to build secondary hate
actually I don't think sunder sets off procs. it'll be easy to test though, I'll do that right now
edit: after 10 minutes of sundering and meleeing things in EPL the only thing that ever set off nightfall or crusader is my white damage. Sunder can proc the 5piece wrath bonus but that's it
Just to confirm- it's only proccing off a normal attack? Or does it proc off of specials like Heroic Strike or Mortal Strike?
Pretend the Nightfall proc is crusader.
Once you have that in your mind, pretend that all the moves you can use to proc Crusader, will proc Nightfall.
The myth that Nightfall doesn't proc off instants is from a period on test where *nothing* was proccing off instants, and some jackass (as is the usual) posted about it being Nightfall specific.
Bam, now it's in the same category as Hateful Strike hitting the lowest agro and magic attacks proccing unbalancing...
Edit - Sunder doesn't proc anything (it isn't a damaging attack, doesn;t proc WF, etc. etc.), he was merely stating that sunder is the ONLY instant he has that won't proc it.
Any update aarkh on a full parse of patchwerk with and without nightfall? Based on the numbers you posted there with 10 mages/warlocks in raid you'd be looking at:
~50 DPS per mage/warlock times 10 = 500 DPS less ~35 lost from the warrior(assuming switch from Severance to Nightfall using Deathwing's spreadsheet) = 465 DPS
For loatheb we crafted 3 of these and put them on paladins, so far with 3 in the raid it procs on avg. 6~ per minute. I think the math came out with 8 mages in the raid during the fight, it was an increase of 700-780 raid dps. I think it's well worth it on healing classes that are allowed to DPS during the duration.
The myth that Nightfall doesn't proc off instants is from a period on test where *nothing* was proccing off instants, and some jackass (as is the usual) posted about it being Nightfall specific
My rough estimate is that, if the debuff was up 100% of the time, it would be about a 650 DPS increase for the average raid. Not counting Flask of Spellpower. At auto-attack it would be worth 150 DPS. Haven't done the math on Hamstring spam etc.
But that doesn't matter. It's going to be a requirement for us on Loatheb because of the encounter.
The reason I asked about Mortal Strike etc is the post I was replying to talked about white damage only.
I got our GL (who is actually an axesmith) to rep himself up to exalted with TB just for this, and I'd say it worked out fairly well.
We only made one, and put it in the hands of a HW shaman who is in our guild with a mostly enhancement spec, and he keeps it up often enough. However, I would definitely say putting it in the hands of a prot spec with nothing to do would be even more powerful. He can just spam hamsting and get windfury and proc it. We'll probably make a couple more, and then pass them out depending.
Might be worth noting that as a shaman, you could have the weapon and if you had a macro to use LHW on someone specific, you could hit that between swings and still get full melee effectiveness out of it. With a 3.5 speed weapon I'd imagine you could get at least one heal off between the swings even with flurry up.
Might be worth noting that as a shaman, you could have the weapon and if you had a macro to use LHW on someone specific, you could hit that between swings and still get full melee effectiveness out of it. With a 3.5 speed weapon I'd imagine you could get at least one heal off between the swings even with flurry up.
That would be nice, but spells stop the swing timer. However, instants (such as remove poison and shocks) do not, so nice on Chromagg for example.
Good the Shaman is getting some usage out of his HWL gear.
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08/08/06, 7:29 PM
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