I was the first horde to get a TF on my server and have been tanking with it ever since, obviously the stats and dps on it are nothing spectacular but the proc, proc rate on specials and slowing effect (and the threat gain associated with all that) make it a great tanking weapon, especially for bosses. I'm looking at the Widow's Remorse though and statwise it is superior by far - it has higher DPS, more stamina, faster speed, armor bonus and +1 chance to hit.

Which begs the question does the Thunderfury proc still make it more valuable for a main tank to weild over a Widow's Remorse? And what if you have others in your raid who have a TF as well and can apply the debuff?

I don't know if anyone has had the opportunity to do the research on this yet but its something I've been wondering about as my guild is mostly likely going to kill Faerlina this weekend and I don't want to take a weapon that could be better off in someone elses hands.

Even if it's better, is it *enough* better to justify taking?

I would absolutely not take another tanking weapon over thunderfury. Even if there are others applying the proc, you want it up 100% of the time and you want the threat it generates. You state higher DPS as a plus of Widow's Remorse but it's not really higher and it definitely generates less threat.

I'd only take widow's remorse after everybody else who wants one has them and then only to use on nature immune bosses

If you want to hold aggro then hell yes TF is better.
Threat generation from the procc is absolutely bonkers.
Besides you wont be keeping the procc up 100% of the time with just 1 TF.

Yes this is essentially what I'm asking.

The debuff is too good not have up on a boss (if it is avaliable).

I do not see the hit, armor, and stamina as stronger than the debuff, and the higher dps on Widow's should be matched by TF's dps + nature damage.

Would be cool to see some math and actual comparisons instead of one liner responses.

On a tangent that mere fact that this is even a debate is testament to how stupid a mistake it was for thunderfury to ever be in the game.

TF proc is (300+241)*1.45 = 783 agro with a 20% proc rate.
At 2.0 speed and assume max usage of revenge/shield bash/31 talent in 60s you get 30 + 12 + 5 + 10 = 57 swings in a minute
57 * .2/60 = 0.19 procs a second
thats 783 * 0.19 = 148.8 agro per second (its actually a bit lower due to cooldown timers sometimes coinciding but we are going to get heroic strike quite a bit of a benefit already)
Straight dps will cut the difference to 148.8-(62.8-53.9) = 139.9 (ignoring +1hit and -.25crit)

From my heroic strike sheet
1200AP 15% crit 20%AC reduction
Thunderfury: HS Threat: 474.74 HS Rage Cost 18.336 ThreatPS: 237.37 Threat/Rage 25.89
Widow's Remorse: HS Threat: 458.95 HS Rage Cost 17.432 ThreatPS: 293.09 Threat/Rage 26.90

293.1 - 237.4 = 55.7 Threat Per Second if HS is spammed

So if you could spam HS at 1.6 speed and use all the abilities at their cooldowns you would still be 139.9 - 55.7 = 84.2 threat per second short of what thunderfury is capable of.

So TF is better than widow's remorse unless the mob resists the TF proc at a 84.2/148.8 = 56.6% rate. Ignoring the +1hit arguement. +1hit is ~ +1% agro so you would still be short somewhere around 80 threat per second

If you use harbringer of doom instead, the numbers come out to
Widow's Remorse: HS Threat: 469.8 HS Rage Cost 17.614 ThreatPS: 293.44 Threat/Rage 26.66
You gain another 3 threat per second from higher base dps and maybe another 3 from the 1.15% crit
for a threat per second deficit of 74.


Thunderfury has no competition when it comes to agro generation.

Math takes longer to write than 1 line respones and yes TF is broken from an agro perspective.

Thanks that is what I was wondering, I hadn't seen the numbers before and its surprising that even now with naxx gear that TF is still top of the pile aggro wise.

This almost sounds like sour grapes from someone who has never gotten a Thunderfury.

Luckily for us, our guild has 5 of them... 3 on warriors, 1 rogue, and 1 lolpaladin (sorry to rub it in EJ).

Uh, we have two. The item is still stupid and the method for obtaining it even stupider.

Should 2 rare drops from MC + gold be > any weapon in the game? What about new servers where people arent going to farm MC for months on end to get 5 TFs. Or perhaps you are one of the guilds that has 5 TFs because you got some server transfers and/or guild switchers.

Would it really be that horrible if more tank weapons with agro procs were added? If Widow's Remorse or Iblis had had a proc that gave just the TF debuff but no damage, it would have been closer to the same agro as TF.

If you remember the situation in EQ where the bard epic weapon had such a unique effect that it was irreplacable for years, that is the current situation with TF. Its not healthy for a game that promotes frequent gear replacements to have these kinds of weapons.

It's good to know blizzard is learning, the requirements for the nifty new staff is one of the best ways to go. Wish the healing aspect of it didn't suck.

There is a reason the item is legendary. It's supposed to be that good, at least in blizzard's estimation. The best upgrade my DPS ever got (well, prior to the mage patch giving me threat mitigation) was getting TF on our MT. It's almost painful to DPS behind any other weapon.

Why is why every Naxx 2h warrior still uses Sulfuras, first obtained just two months prior to the first TFs.

qft


even 2 fury warriors weren't enough for keep the debuff on loatheb 100% of the time last night. 3 or 4 people in the raid with it is optimal in any fight where keeping the MT alive is a difficult part of the fight (Loatheb, Maexxna, Patchwerk, Faerlina)

Actually we don't know what the requirements are. If it's just "collect 40 splinters, the base and the head" I'll be stunned. Both other legendaries had a massive materials cost attached to them and I'm anticipating one just as hefty for this thing.

well, i think the point is that it's not "get this absurdly rare drop and this other absurdly rare drop in this zone you should mathematically have farmed to death long before you'll actually get both bindings to get a weapon that will be the best in the game until the expansion", and instead "get 40 of these things that have a decent drop percentage in a zone you're doing anyway" rather than any sort of material cost involved. the latter is clearly better.

...

To clarify: WTF to OP

Have droprates on the base and head been established?

We must suck because we have no Thunderfuries.