Ok, so I'm in a discussion with a few warrior friends (I'm a priest) about threat. The warriors think that the extra DPS from flurry will equal the threat you'd normall generate with defiance.

Does defiance affect only white damage?

This is not a "I'm a noob and I know it's great, so it's all dmg" question. I'd like a couple (at least two) sources at least to back you up, not just random speculating. This makes a big difference in whether a fury warrior can tank effectively.
Thanks!

I'm pretty sure defiance is a flat modifier on all threat. There is nothing about the talent that says it works on only white damage. And since white damage is such a small part of a warrior's threat generation, it would be useless if defiance worked that way. Main threat abilities for a warrior, revenge, shield slam, heroic strike, etc are all special attacks. Majority of a warrior's threat gen is from specials and thus defiance applies to it.

Ah ah! Not what I'm looking for. No speculation. I want data. I know that's how is *should* work, but does it?

Pretty sure ain't gonna cut it for guild going into Naxx.

http://www.thotbott.com/?sp=12792

vs

http://www.thotbott.com/?sp=7376

http://www.thottbot.com/?sp=12792

Look at the modifier it does.

Apply Aura: Mod Threat (All)
Value: 15

It affects all threat.

Edit: I'd be shocked that someone in a guild going into Naxx would think defiance only affects white attacks, which are a very small part of a warrior's threat generation. Since Heroic Strike you know, replaces white attacks.

very little of a warrior's threat generation actually has anything to do with damage.

Defiance affects absolutely everything you do while in defensive stance. Although fury warriors can tank most content outside of Naxx just fine, Flurry cannot compete with Defiance for threat gen.

Huh? Please - be kidding. Damage output means a LOT for a warriors threat generation.

Your best threat reference is go read how Kenco computes warrior threat in the KTM threat meter mod. Something as fundumental as defiance applying to all war damage would make a very noticable difference in the mod if it were wrong - and generally people find that the mod is darn accurate (there are some minor exceptions people point out from time to time, but nothing major).

As to white damage threat - my warrior ranges from an estimated 60% threat from white damge (zg/aq, early mc) to nearly 0% (big hitters in naxx). On some of the stuff in naxx (abom trash even), I get no white damage at all - there's always enough rage for HS + shield block + revenge + slam (, and sometimes even sunder).

perhaps i should rephrase, since i posted that hastily and didn't really think through what i said lol :-P clearly a warrior's threat generation scales with damage, but the impact of increasing your damage by X% (from an ability like flurry) vs increasing your threat generation by X%, you're clearly going to be better off with increasing your threat generation as a whole. improving your damage certainly improves your threat generation, but it certainly isn't comparable to something like defiance that gives you a pure threat mod.

so no, i wasn't quite kidding, but i was overstating the matter :-P

Certainly damage is nice to do and does give some threat, but most of the threat generated is via threat moves like Revenge/Sunder/Shield Slam.

Sigh.


When you have PW:shield on a warrior he loses the rage that he WOULD have gotten if that damage actually hit him.

Prove it.

Go prove it yourself. It's not exactly hard. Go out with a friendly tank, shield him, have him body pull a mob and not attack it, watch his rage generation until the shield runs out, then watch it after the shield breaks. See if there's any difference.

Asking people to prove stuff when you give no insight yourself is pretty rude. Don't come here asking for help and then throw it in their face when actually decide to respond with usefull information. I don't think people would outright lie to you. They'll either tell you first-hand experiences, stuff they believe as truth, or refer you to a better information source.

Short of a video, how else are they supposed to prove that warriors don't generate rage through shields? Now, personally, I thought a warrior does generate rage when shielded. I don't tank much, and it's not like I can notice in the heat of battle. Now, I do know that warriors don't generate rage when hitting shielded targets, from my experience in pvp. So perhaps the same applies in reverse.

Would you like us to transfer to your server and kill your Naxx bosses for you as well? This forum is a resource to assist those who are willing to put out the extra effort to improve their gameplay and strategies. You have requested somewhat basic game data with the tone of a petulant child. While the community here is quite accomodating with all levels of players and the inquiries they have, it would be nice to see some gracious modesty towards the folks who have volunteered information with the intention of helping you, rather than demands for empirical evidence that you could easily attain on your own.


Edit:Looks like someone feels the same as I do, but types faster.

Shocktar either stop posting asking questions that have been answered here time and time again while demanding that people give you information that is already available to you, or just stop posting here altogether.

Shocktar: You're a twarp. Your questions are trivial and covered in various other, easily accesible resources. You come off as very rude and demanding. You're a very snide, possibly overweight, short, bald, man. Also pathetically lacking in the crotchal region, and quite possibly sit on an upside down bar stool. If you do not receive the answer you are looking for you bite the person's head off, which brings me to my own question, why ask questions if you're just going to refute the answers and shrug them off? I find it hilarious that you come here asking a question, and then setting guidelines as to how you want the answer given to you. Are you a college professor giving the kiddies an assignment? Go back to douchebag land.

Alright, if my two word post has come off as rude, I apologize, that was not the intent. The intent was to get good information with backups about my shield question. I did search, and all I found was opinions, exactly like what newladin gave me.
Now, beyond that,
http://www.wowwiki.com/Power_Word:_Shield In the notes about other classes and
http://www.wowwiki.com/Instance_Grouping_Guide_Warrior at the bottom under "Grouping with a warrior"
Clearly state information to the contrary. Can anyone back either side up with more links, or am I going to get more opinions, rather than facts, on who I am, and my personality, based on 15 minutes of forum reading?
@diospadre where are these answered? I searched a few times, but I couldn't find more than "I think it's still generating rage", or "I think not" style posts. If I missed some, I apologize, and withdraw my question.

You don't get rage when shielded. It's first hand experience, I'm a warrior, I main tanked all encounters up to naxx and offtanked most of naxx(no horsemen/thaddius yet). If you're shielded, you get no rage from getting hit, only from hitting your targets. It depends on the fight, sometimes I'll keep the shield because it lets you get a few hits with improved bloodrage and normal attacks rage, while not getting heals, so healers don't generate threat. On other fights where dps engage as fast as possible, I cancel shields if someone ever cast one on me(noth adds, twin emps bugs, stuff like that).

As to why a dps can't main tank naxx, few reasons. First, you want max deflection defiance and toughness for the most effective tanking builds. That rule out any fury based build. Second, you probably want shield slam for snap threat and over time threat, most naxx fights, like AQ fights, are timed, and your dps has to go all out as much as possible. You just can't hold aggro as good without shield slam. You're fine for offtanking tho. Obviously, in the end, you could still tank without any points in prot and kill some bosses(I have doubts for patchwerk without imp shield block,toughness and deflection tho).

I bothered to read both of them, and they don't say the same thing. This one states the opposite; that healing, instead of PW:S will not interfere with a warrior's rage generation. Clearly, you cannot read. And the second one is flat out wrong.

Many people are telling you that warriors don't get rage from taking damage when a shield is on them. I would have said it's up to you to prove otherwise, it's not really hard. All you need is 30 seconds of a warrior's time, or you could even find a fellow priest and re-roll a level 1 and use that to test it.