Defiance-White Damage Only? - Page 3

Kanan · 08/09/06, 2:03 PM

Originally Posted by Jaerel

When you factor in revenge, shield slam, and sunder though it seems silly to debate.

Exactly. Read Kelan's description of how he calculates threat and you'll see how efficient Sunder Armor is for generating threat. There are argunments to be made for using HS with a fast weapon... but the fact is a good Prot warrior will use all the tools at his disposal at some time.

To the OP... the only way to get definitive proof on anything is to kidnap a developer, and even then you're likely to get some misinformation. Bleieve it or not, but Wowwiki is not the be-all, end-all resource that some seem to think it is. Basically, the only thing you're going to find is opinion... with varying degrees of fact incorporated.

If you want to use these forums as a resource, I'd suggest doing some investigation of your own first. Then, say "Hey, I've noticed a, b and c... what do you guys think?"... Not "Prove to me that black is not white," and have an attitude about it.

KTHXBAI

Jekar · 08/09/06, 2:48 PM

Originally Posted by Pyros

As to why a dps can't main tank naxx, few reasons. First, you want max deflection defiance and toughness for the most effective tanking builds. That rule out any fury based build. Second, you probably want shield slam for snap threat and over time threat, most naxx fights, like AQ fights, are timed, and your dps has to go all out as much as possible. You just can't hold aggro as good without shield slam. You're fine for offtanking tho. Obviously, in the end, you could still tank without any points in prot and kill some bosses(I have doubts for patchwerk without imp shield block,toughness and deflection tho).

If Toughness, Defiance, Deflection, and Snap Aggro are your requirements, why not go with 5/31/15? As long as you are generating enough rage to use it, Bloodthirst should equal Shield Slam in terms if Snap Aggro (assuming roughly 1600 raid buffed atp in tank gear). Here is an example of the specific build I'm thinking of when I say 5/31/15: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=pVZE0zVoxRVoVV00x

• Nemesis · 08/09/06, 3:09 PM

main tanking without improved shield block? last stand? bloodrage?

kharen · 08/09/06, 3:17 PM

Originally Posted by ruro

Originally Posted by Phoenix

Its 10% more threat created by white damage. And the accompanying rage of course.

Apply Aura: Mod Threat (All)
Value: 15

Defiance applies to everything you do in defensive stance.

Everything.

Not just white hits.

Phoenix was responding to the person asking about the worth of 1h Weapon Spec, i believe (which actually may be worth slightly more than that, since i have a feeling it may well apply to _all_ damage done while wielding a 1h weapon, not just white damage).

Celandro · 08/09/06, 4:33 PM

Originally Posted by Nemesis

main tanking without improved shield block? last stand? bloodrage?

Agreed. You need imp shield block and last stand and defiance and toughness to maintank. Thats 19 points in protection and can be done with any of the 3 31 point specs. Since it is possible to be at 25% crit buffed with AQ40 tank gear, its hard to say that a protection spec will out agro a fury spec, especially when it comes to thunderfury. Mitigation wise, protection is obviously the best (although extra TF procs may make a bigger difference if only 1 TF in the guild).

• squiffy · 08/09/06, 5:27 PM

1H specialisation affects the damage from TF's proc, from my experiences.

Pyros · 08/09/06, 5:58 PM

Originally Posted by Jekar

If Toughness, Defiance, Deflection, and Snap Aggro are your requirements, why not go with 5/31/15? As long as you are generating enough rage to use it, Bloodthirst should equal Shield Slam in terms if Snap Aggro (assuming roughly 1600 raid buffed atp in tank gear). Here is an example of the specific build I'm thinking of when I say 5/31/15: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=pVZE0zVoxRVoVV00x

Erm, 1600ap in tanking gear? I'd like to see that ^^
You'll have an average of 1200ap with buffs and tanking gear. Shield slam hits for more than bloodthirst AND generate additional threat.
And yeah as said before, this is a terrible build, no tank putting points in protection would go without imp shield block. You can play without last stand, but imp shield block? No thanks, might as well with 17arms 34fury if you do this.

Schnappi · 08/09/06, 7:56 PM

Originally Posted by squiffy

1H specialisation affects the damage from TF's proc, from my experiences.

My TF procs for for 270 (in def stance) all the time, so I think this isnt correct.

1h spec does help on all other damage I do though.

• squiffy · 08/09/06, 8:04 PM

I could've sworn it did, will check it out tonight Schnappi.

Lord BEEF · 08/09/06, 8:27 PM

The tanking sets haven't significantly changed the amount of strength on them since Might, 1600 attack power is unlikely to say the least.

The Mercenary · 08/11/06, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by squiffy

1H specialisation affects the damage from TF's proc, from my experiences.

No it doesn't. And my Fury + TF vs Protection + TF scenario may be an exception to the rule in terms of aggro generation, but I still feel it's valid enough to mention. For everything else, you'd have to be crazy to think that the Fury tree could compare to Protection while in a tanking set. The main benefit from the Fury + TF build is that it has much more flexibility in what you can bring to a raid. If you aren't tanking you are pretty much worthless as Protection. And some people actually enjoy doing both tanking and DPS.

And yeah, the people that keep saying "unlimited rage" need to remember there are more fights in the game besides Vaelastrasz.