It would seem that 5 pc Earthfury bonus is unreasonable to give up based on pure mana recovery.
If the 25% chance proc fires off of a Rank 6 Lesser Healing Wave with talents, you will recover 133 mana. If you only get one proc every minute, that's the equivalent of 10mp5. Considering that Rank 10 Healing Wave returns 217 mana and the bonus definitely procs more than once per minute (because you are likely to cast a heal more than 8 times per minute), it would seem that 4pc Earthshatter + 5pc Earthfury is te best possible combination of gear.
Isn't mana recovery king for raiding shamans? Does anyone have 6 pc T3 yet? Is it worth giving up the 5pc EF bonus?
Simple question:
Would you rather have 8% cost reduction on HW and LHW, or do you want the extra +heal, Stam, Int, Armor, Regen, and set bonuses that Tier 3 provides?
vs full Earthshatter, the linked profile loses about 10mp5 and 150 +healing (and some stam and int of course). You still maintain the 4pc ES bonus and 5pc EF, plus you get the spirit and resistances. I guess the only real way to tell which is better is if the 6pc ES bonus is good enough to overcome the benefits of 5pc EF bonus.
I can't see how 5 piece EF could possibly compete with 5 pieces of Earthshatterer.
You'd be sacrificing a stack of +healing (150+) not to mention stam, intell and on most 5 piece combos at least 20 mp/5 just to stick with the 5 piece EF.
As for a 4 pc ES and 5 piece EF combo just look at the 6 and 8 pce ES set bonuses.
No way!
PS My combat log tells me I get 133 mana from a LHW 6 and 290 mana from a HW9 (Still haven't gotten the damn rank 10 yet)
Fixed the original post so that people won't nitpick the word "impossible".
Yes, its entirely reasonable to give up the bonus.
I had no beef with your wording, I understood your intent.
Shamans rely entirely too much on the EF bonus and routinely pass up better healing gear because of it. http://ctprofiles.net/3224
+Healing blows away the regen bonus in my opinion.
I can't see how 5 piece EF could possibly compete with 5 pieces of Earthshatterer.
You'd be sacrificing a stack of +healing (150+) not to mention stam, intell and on most 5 piece combos at least 20 mp/5 just to stick with the 5 piece EF.
As for a 4 pc ES and 5 piece EF combo just look at the 6 and 8 pce ES set bonuses.
No way!
PS My combat log tells me I get 133 mana from a LHW 6 and 290 mana from a HW9 (Still haven't gotten the damn rank 10 yet)
Look at the CTprofile I linked in a followup post. You lose 10 mp5, and about 150 healing, as I stated. The 5pc EF grants you an effective 40+ mp5 (assuming it procs 4 times or more a minute).
It's 133 from Rank 6 LHW and 217 from rank 10. I am on the road right now so I can get screenshots to prove it, but the math works out. My original 119 was taking into effect the 10% mana reduction from talents, but I believe you are correct. 290 is over 50% of the mana from Rank9, so you are likely mistaken there.
Assuming the 5pc EF is equivalent to 40mp5, thats 30mp5 greater than full ES. 30mp5 > +150 healing imo. Stam and Int take a MAJOR back seat to mp5 and +healing.
As for "just look at the 6 and 8 pce ES set bonuses", I can't begin to tell you how silly this statement is.
Fixed the original post so that people won't nitpick the word "impossible".
Yes, its entirely reasonable to give up the bonus.
I had no beef with your wording, I understood your intent.
Shamans rely entirely too much on the EF bonus and routinely pass up better healing gear because of it. http://ctprofiles.net/3224
+Healing blows away the regen bonus in my opinion.
So I guess the real debate is "At what point is mp5 better/worse than +healing?" And more complex than that, does the 6 and 8 pc ES bonus combined with +150 healing outweigh the superior mana recovery of 5pc EF?
I wonder if a year from now in the expansion I will be reading threads asking if the shaman set from Illidan's Black Temple is worth breaking up 5 piece Earthfury.
I wonder if a year from now in the expansion I will be reading threads asking if the shaman set from Illidan's Black Temple is worth breaking up 5 piece Earthfury.
Answer: yes, but Illidan's rogue set won't be worth breaking up 5 piece Nightslayer. :blink:
Look at the CTprofile I linked in a followup post. You lose 10 mp5, and about 150 healing, as I stated. The 5pc EF grants you an effective 40+ mp5 (assuming it procs 4 times or more a minute).
Your linked profile only has 4/8 EF and 5/8 ES. The 4 you have chosen are the 4 pieces with mp/5 on them but you still need another which will have zero so you're up for losing more than 10 mp/5. 14 in best case scenario. You're down 141 + healing on those 4 pieces and will go down a lot more when you add a 5th. You're also down 25 Stam and 23 Intel just on those 4. Mp/5 isn't the only consideration. + healing is effective in every single healing situation, mp/5 is not. If you're that worried about mana and not so concerned with the amount you heal for downrank to Rank 5 LHW and save yourself 20% mana rather than the 8.75% that 5/8 EF gives you on average. The +150 healing your missing out on covers half of the 220ish difference between them anyway.
Originally Posted by Durnitol
As for "just look at the 6 and 8 pce ES set bonuses", I can't begin to tell you how silly this statement is.
The 8/9 bonus is 15mp/5 if your LS is up so is directly relevant to any comparison in the majority of raid healing situations. Isn't that what we're trying to compare here? Totemic power I'll give you is a bit of an unknown but looks to be potentially very good depending on the proc rate.
Fixed the original post so that people won't nitpick the word "impossible".
Yes, its entirely reasonable to give up the bonus.
I had no beef with your wording, I understood your intent.
Shamans rely entirely too much on the EF bonus and routinely pass up better healing gear because of it. http://ctprofiles.net/3224
+Healing blows away the regen bonus in my opinion.
So I guess the real debate is "At what point is mp5 better/worse than +healing?" And more complex than that, does the 6 and 8 pc ES bonus combined with +150 healing outweigh the superior mana recovery of 5pc EF?
You mean, does the 6 and 8 pc ES bonus combined with +150 healing, a large chunk of stamina, intellect, and armor outweigh the superior mana recovery of 5pc EF? Yes. That's a ridiculous comparison.
I haven't really used 5 pieces of EF since Stormcaller became available, let alone Earthshatter. Infact I barely even used it over Ten Storms. It's time to let go.
I haven't really used 5 pieces of EF since Stormcaller became available, let alone Earthshatter. Infact I barely even used it over Ten Storms. It's time to let go.
hmm granted, I am not in nax yet (wel not killed a boss yet, hope that will change soon) but even I know how hard it is to keep LS up all the time, the bonus isn't that good if you ask me. It's nice, it adds some fluff, but the ultime raiding tool? I don't know.
I think you are underestimating the 5pc EF bonus if you are using 10storms over it. 217 mana back is quite abit chunk.
I wonder if a year from now in the expansion I will be reading threads asking if the shaman set from Illidan's Black Temple is worth breaking up 5 piece Earthfury.
Answer: yes, but Illidan's rogue set won't be worth breaking up 5 piece Nightslayer. :blink:
???
Who values 10 energy that much? (serious question, assuming u werent joking with ur post of course)
I wonder if a year from now in the expansion I will be reading threads asking if the shaman set from Illidan's Black Temple is worth breaking up 5 piece Earthfury.
Well that was actualy a valid question up until T3 came out seeing as how TS is total garbage compared to T1
I don't think I'll ever wear any earthfury again, when you have pretty much the choice of any gear you wish, I can see no reason why you'd wear earthfury at all.
Lets assume you don't even have any Tier 3..
5 piece Stormcaller is just too damn good, especially when combined with 3 piece Ten Storms, on the majority of fights as a shaman, mana just really isn't that much of an issue anymore and for the few fights that demand it, you have consumables+manastream+manatide.
When you throw Tier 3 into the mix, with the increase in mp5 at the loss of spirit (ugh), the extra stamina, int and +healing and the fact that as I said before, mana isnt really an issue anymore (as a raiding healer - all this doesnt count if you are a DPS shaman....) anyone wearing any Earthfury, when they have access to tier2.5/3 in the same slot is somewhat misguided.
Answer: yes, but Illidan's rogue set won't be worth breaking up 5 piece Nightslayer. :blink:
???
Who values 10 energy that much? (serious question, assuming u werent joking with ur post of course)
I was being sarcastic, but only because I'm come across a LOT of rogues on.. shall we say, less mathematically inclined forums.. who absolutely swear that 5-piece Nightslayer is greater than all, and swear that they would never give it up.
Wouldnt it be cool if people installed mods like HealPoints and actually compared before they posted stuff like this?
mm as far as I know there is no way to actually value every item with a mod, I have healpoints, it is good, but it's not a tool you can blindely trust.
to compare how usefull different items are you need to take into account how the fight will be, something healpoints can't do. (or atleastI haven't found the option)
there will be a big difference between your chrommy gear when you are decursing, a 10 minute fight a 2 minute fight etc. different healing strategies also matter. are you going to do healing rotations between two people and use spirit breaks? or use downranking and m/5s and have those same two people just chaincast? will you get innervates during the fight. and much more.
08/09/06, 12:04 AM
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