I'd really try to get drakefang, that one is a killer.
Badge has only 2 minutes CD, so most times you can use it at least twice. DPS wise, according to the rogue DPS spreadsheet, it is better than BB.
Sure ill bid for dft if i can... but its crap rare, kiss of the spider is also a possibility tho, and i guess that beats dft. Gonna have to farm quite a lot of dkp for it first tho.
Badge of the Swarmguard is a pretty damn fine trinket for everything but aggrosensitive fights. I find myself mostly using it on trash to tell you the truth as my guild is still learning the majority of fights in the later half of AQ40 and Naxx.
If you get 6 stacks pretty quickly you will see some pretty big numbers flying by.
Earthstrike provides more AP overall in comparison to Jom Gabbar. Altough I'd really like to see that last tick of Jom. +715 AP? Backstab crit? Oh hell yeah.
BTW, does it give +715 or +650 AP on the last tick, i.e. is it 65+(65*10) or simply 65*10?
Just out of curiosity what would you rather use if you have the choice to go along with DFT, Jon Gabbar , ES , or KoS?
For a fury warrior.
Sorry for the OT:
KoS is awesome, the Rageflow is marvellous if you pop it alongside with DW. I could be mistaken but this is as far i can tell the only reproducable event where rage inflow by the OH comes close to covering almost all rage cost (BT,WW,HS spam with MH). It is that good.
Cant speak for Jom Gabbar though. Could be equally good.
Earthstrike provides more AP overall in comparison to Jom Gabbar. Altough I'd really like to see that last tick of Jom. +715 AP? Backstab crit? Oh hell yeah.
BTW, does it give +715 or +650 AP on the last tick, i.e. is it 65+(65*10) or simply 65*10?
The latter calculation seems to be correct. I wonder how do you come to the conclusion that earthstrike provides more AP than JG? IIRC both trinkets have 2 min CD, 20 seconds duration. JG will average out on about 320 ap, whereas earthstrike provides 280 ap sustained.
For comparison between trinkets for the Rogue class, Chalon created a Spreadsheet that has all those trinkets in it. Search for Rogue dps spreadsheet if it is not on the frontpage.
You just need Excel (or the OpenOffice Excel if cheap) to view it.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
Last time I checked, Chalon's spreadsheet did not model Badge of the Swarmguard, unless you're just referring to the Jom Gabbar/ES questions, frmorrison.
I put together a small (and probably incorrect) spreadsheet to model the badge. Right now it's effect is dependant on how much it actually procs and how much armor the mob in question has. I'll find a place to upload it and link it.
According to the armor-sampling mod (which, if it's horribly inaccurate, is at least conistantly horribly inaccurate across everyone) gives most bosses on the order of ~1800 AC post sunders. Add in CoR and FF with BotSG and you're pretty much looking at a 0 AC mob...yes please?
Can't speak to comparative analysis with other dps trinkets, but I'd be suprised if it was anything other than quite good.
Originally Posted by bartolimu
It makes me want to hit Marge Thatcher on the nose with a rolled up newspaper.
Earthstrike provides more AP overall in comparison to Jom Gabbar. Altough I'd really like to see that last tick of Jom. +715 AP? Backstab crit? Oh hell yeah.
BTW, does it give +715 or +650 AP on the last tick, i.e. is it 65+(65*10) or simply 65*10?
The latter calculation seems to be correct. I wonder how do you come to the conclusion that earthstrike provides more AP than JG? IIRC both trinkets have 2 min CD, 20 seconds duration. JG will average out on about 320 ap, whereas earthstrike provides 280 ap sustained.
i can see the point in calculating overall benefit provided by an activated trinket like that for comparison, but do most rogues seriously use trinkets like that, using them and then letting them stay equipped until they cool down again? In fights where Vanish isn't useful for anything else (Patchwerk?), i'd think you'd have the trinket equipped at the start, pop it + AR + BF + SnD whatever, and then vanish to swap it out for a passive trinket like DFT/BHB as soon as the effect wears off, like we do with FD.
Or is vanish really as bad at dropping combat for even a split second as some rogues say?
i'd think you'd have the trinket equipped at the start, pop it + AR + BF + SnD whatever, and then vanish to swap it out for a passive trinket like DFT/BHB as soon as the effect wears off, like we do with FD.
Or is vanish really as bad at dropping combat for even a split second as some rogues say?
Yea, combat pulses are really fast nowadays, it is not really viable as a Rogue.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
Earthstrike provides more AP overall in comparison to Jom Gabbar. Altough I'd really like to see that last tick of Jom. +715 AP? Backstab crit? Oh hell yeah.
BTW, does it give +715 or +650 AP on the last tick, i.e. is it 65+(65*10) or simply 65*10?
The latter calculation seems to be correct. I wonder how do you come to the conclusion that earthstrike provides more AP than JG? IIRC both trinkets have 2 min CD, 20 seconds duration. JG will average out on about 320 ap, whereas earthstrike provides 280 ap sustained.
i can see the point in calculating overall benefit provided by an activated trinket like that for comparison, but do most rogues seriously use trinkets like that, using them and then letting them stay equipped until they cool down again? In fights where Vanish isn't useful for anything else (Patchwerk?), i'd think you'd have the trinket equipped at the start, pop it + AR + BF + SnD whatever, and then vanish to swap it out for a passive trinket like DFT/BHB as soon as the effect wears off, like we do with FD.
Or is vanish really as bad at dropping combat for even a split second as some rogues say?
I haven't been able to trinketswap via vanish since 1.10 went live. Once in a while it works, but I'd say 99% of the time it fails.
Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.
i'd think you'd have the trinket equipped at the start, pop it + AR + BF + SnD whatever, and then vanish to swap it out for a passive trinket like DFT/BHB as soon as the effect wears off, like we do with FD.
Or is vanish really as bad at dropping combat for even a split second as some rogues say?
Yea, combat pulses are really fast nowadays, it is not really viable as a Rogue.
well even with combat pulses being really frequent (I do know how frequent they are, since I actively try to drop out of combat several times on most encounters), how long you spend out of combat isn't really relevant as long as do actually drop out of combat for some amount of time - if you're using a mod like Trinket Menu to queue gear swaps as soon as you leave combat, it should still work regardless of how frequent the pulses are.
so i'm gathering from your reply that most of the time vanish fails at getting you out of combat at all?
It is possible with a macro though, just not something you'd want to do and expect to work reliably. On my Rogue I've found the best general rule is to use an activateable trinket and swap in a passive on vanish but again, even macroed it does not always work.
i'd think you'd have the trinket equipped at the start, pop it + AR + BF + SnD whatever, and then vanish to swap it out for a passive trinket like DFT/BHB as soon as the effect wears off, like we do with FD.
Or is vanish really as bad at dropping combat for even a split second as some rogues say?
Yea, combat pulses are really fast nowadays, it is not really viable as a Rogue.
well even with combat pulses being really frequent (I do know how frequent they are, since I actively try to drop out of combat several times on most encounters), how long you spend out of combat isn't really relevant as long as do actually drop out of combat for some amount of time - if you're using a mod like Trinket Menu to queue gear swaps as soon as you leave combat, it should still work regardless of how frequent the pulses are.
so i'm gathering from your reply that most of the time vanish fails at getting you out of combat at all?
Yep.
And even when you do, it's typically for less time than it takes something like ItemRack to recognize OOC and execute the queued swap.
Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.
Vanish to switch out gear has like a 10% success rate in most boss fights. So it's not something to build a play style around. Active trinkets pretty much stay equipped. Especially since you can only vanish once most fights, so it's not like you can be like a Hunter and swap back in 30s before it's about to come up.
Badge of the Swarmguard is not that great for rogues, especially when you consider the 3m cooldown. 2m cooldowns are much more friendly since you can pair it directly with Blade Flurry.
I had a Badge and used it for quite a while. I really, really wanted it to be awesome and help me kick ass on the damagemeters, but it really didn't. I ended up just going back to Hand of Justice because I did more damage with it.
Thanks for the clarification on Vanish, didn't realize it was really that bad (rogues cry wolf about too many things imho :P).
As for swarmguard, I (a non rogue) generally only use it on fights where I need large controlled bursts of DPS - swarmguard + devilsaur + rapid fire is amazing when killing C'thun's stomach tentacles for instance, since there isn't usually a warrior to sunder for me, or opening on fights like PW where the target has a lot of armour and no aggro worries.
It's turning out to be amazing for PvP though, people tend to drop like flies when it's up - seems to proc up to 3 times on each multishot :P
08/10/06, 7:20 AM
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