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Old 08/13/06, 8:46 AM   #1
Lank
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warrior
 
Kilrogg
I'm a DW fury warrior. Currently both my weapons are crusader enchanted, but I'm not sure on the Offhand proc-rate.
Would it be better to get +15 STR on average (for OH) over crusader?
I still like the occasional heals and big numbers dual crusader gives though!

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Old 08/13/06, 10:28 AM   #2
Thordor
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Warrior
 
Cenarion Circle
If I remember Correctly the offhand proc rate averages out to about 22 str, and double crusader procs rule.


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Old 08/13/06, 1:24 PM   #3
Deathwing
Bald Bull
 
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Orc Warrior
 
Black Dragonflight
On my spreadsheet, offhand averages out to about 22 str. The great thing is that there is very little that influences offhand proc rate(haste), so I can say with a good amount of confidence that the number is correct. 7 more str worth the extra price? Usually is for me, especially since a lot of my offhand weapons were originally mainhand weapons.

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Old 08/13/06, 5:51 PM   #4
Kir
Piston Honda
 
Undead Mage
 
Hyjal
I've got dual crusader, as a rogue, and I think I prefer it. +15 agi is technically better for offhand, but as the above poster said, my offhands tend to have been my MH weapon before. Additionally, the difference isn't so big that I personally feel the extra healing is worth it. For soloing it's great, and while I can't quantify the amount exactly, I'm sure the extra healing has saved my life more then a few times. A dead rogue does 0 dps.

Really iTunes? Free downloads while supplies last?

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Old 08/13/06, 5:57 PM   #5
Richiewolk
Von Kaiser
 
Human Rogue
 
Draenor
Originally Posted by Kir
I've got dual crusader, as a rogue, and I think I prefer it. +15 agi is technically better for offhand, but as the above poster said, my offhands tend to have been my MH weapon before. Additionally, the difference isn't so big that I personally feel the extra healing is worth it. For soloing it's great, and while I can't quantify the amount exactly, I'm sure the extra healing has saved my life more then a few times. A dead rogue does 0 dps.
Is the procrate on crusader so low that +15 agi is really better?

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Old 08/13/06, 6:37 PM   #6
 frmorrison
Protector
 
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Ashstrike
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Richiewolk
Is the procrate on crusader so low that +15 agi is really better?
For a Rogue 15 agility > ~22 str (it may be a little higher with slice n' dice), however, that extra healing Crusader gets is always nice to have.

That said, I feel the difference isn't enought that I would reenchant (if the weapon already had Crusader).

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Old 08/13/06, 7:35 PM   #7
Lank
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warrior
 
Kilrogg
Ah thats cool..
I already have double crusader so I'll definately keep it!
The double proc is deadly in pvp too, when it happens

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Old 08/13/06, 8:03 PM   #8
Kir
Piston Honda
 
Undead Mage
 
Hyjal
Originally Posted by Richiewolk
Is the procrate on crusader so low that +15 agi is really better?
~22 ap vs 15 ap and .5% crit, so yes. As deathwing said, offhand proc rate is much lower.

But, occasionally you get double procs, which are fun. Occasionally, I can manage to time Adrenaline rush with double procs and crank out some extra DPS. It's rare, but it happens sometimes. +15agi on offhand is definitely higher dps though. I'm not arguing against it, but it's not something like a 10dps difference, so I personally feel the extra healing is worth it, and I don't want to renchant my offhand weapon, which tends to get sharded quicker then whatever my MH is. A new weapon tends to go Mh, then pushed to my OH.

Really iTunes? Free downloads while supplies last?

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Old 08/13/06, 8:29 PM   #9
Richiewolk
Von Kaiser
 
Human Rogue
 
Draenor
Plugging several sets of gear into chalon's spreadsheet shows the difference in dps to be minimal, with +15 agi coming out as superior for lesser sets of gear, and crusader as better for more well-geared rogues, unbuffed. Buffed, +15 agi is on top always, but only by small fractions. His modeling of the proc seems to be 24.5 strength instead of 22 as you have modeled, so that may account for something.

I do like double procs though, I guess that's something you just can't model well.

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Old 08/13/06, 9:01 PM   #10
Mist
Don Flamenco
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Shattered Hand
The healing is nice too. :P Its definately worth the money.

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Old 08/13/06, 9:39 PM   #11
Deathwing
Bald Bull
 
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Orc Warrior
 
Black Dragonflight
Originally Posted by Richiewolk
Plugging several sets of gear into chalon's spreadsheet shows the difference in dps to be minimal, with +15 agi coming out as superior for lesser sets of gear, and crusader as better for more well-geared rogues, unbuffed. Buffed, +15 agi is on top always, but only by small fractions. His modeling of the proc seems to be 24.5 strength instead of 22 as you have modeled, so that may account for something.

I do like double procs though, I guess that's something you just can't model well.
His is a bit higher because you can pretty much guaruntee 100% haste for rogues...warriors will never get 100% haste.

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Old 08/13/06, 11:05 PM   #12
xarg
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Blackrock
What % of the time do you assume warriors have flurry up to get ~22 str?

If it procs in offhand at 1ppm as with in main hand, wouldn't that mean it's up 15 in 60 seconds and average out to 25 str? What am I missing :S

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Old 08/14/06, 4:39 AM   #13
Schnappi
Piston Honda
 
Orc Shaman
 
Vek'nilash (EU)
Originally Posted by xarg
What % of the time do you assume warriors have flurry up to get ~22 str?

If it procs in offhand at 1ppm as with in main hand, wouldn't that mean it's up 15 in 60 seconds and average out to 25 str? What am I missing :S
Misses from dual wielding, I think. Partly compensated by haste effects, but not enough to bridge the miss rate.

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Old 08/14/06, 7:19 AM   #14
Wings
Von Kaiser
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Argent Dawn
Judging from this, the best setup for Rogue would be Crusader on Mainhand and +15 Agility on offhand? Or is, mathemetically, +15 Agility better than Crusader on Main Hand as well?

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Old 08/14/06, 7:40 AM   #15
kharen
Don Flamenco
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
The Venture Co (EU)
Crusader main/agi off is generally the best combo for rogues, with current gear levels (the crit compenent from the agi enchant means that theoretically it could scale to perform better than crusader for MH, but even with the best gear currently in-game, crusader still comes out on top for now - and by the time there's better gear available, we'll be looking at expansion weapons and enchants anyway). There's not a lot in it, though, the differences between them are miniscule (and if you're daggers, +5 is another very competitive option, which some people prefer over crusader because it's consistent, rather than proc-based, and it has the added benefit of being relatively cheap).

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