Rukka

Just curious. I am trying to find out what i should do about raid dps to possibly enhance it on long, drawn out fights, or simply just trying to save my mana till my mana pot cooldown is up. Should i use any lower rank shots? right now i just spam my highest rank ones and switch to R1 multi shot if i need to in order to wait for my mana pot cooldown. Lookin to see if there is a more efficient way to dps. I also dont use stings on raids.

 

Elendril

demonic/dark runes and superior mana potions should keep your mana up well enough on pretty much any fight.

 

Rukka

do you guys do any down-ranking?

 

Starks

Demonic Runes, Superior Mana Potions, Mana Oil, Nightfin soup, etc.

Lower ranks of Multi-shot and Aimed Shot are more DPM than their max-rank counterparts, so could be very useful depending on the fight. I know I've seen the math for when to downrank in a good thread somewhere on the EU boards but can't find it atm.

Also, you could consider getting Black Grasp of the Destroyer made, assuming you're not breaking 8/8 DS to wear them. Are you horde or alliance?

 

◊ Lactose

I use a mix of Major Mana Potions, Dark / Demonic Runes, Nightfin Soup, Lesser Mana Oil (x2), Mageblood Potion -- depends on how long the fight'll last. I don't downrank.

Look, Lactose, we'd rather you didn't eradicate the whole human race.
- Sam & Max

 

balgrim

^^ what Elendril said~ Runes + Superior/Combat Mana Potions will keep you running without issue. If you're finding yourself still strapped for mana somehow, then lesser mana oil and mana fish can give you a little extra regen. If I'm really looking to splurge, I opt for Major Mana instead of Superior/Combat and use Mageblood.

On a wide array of fights where I'd rather not blow through consumables (mostly on farm status bosses or total jokes like Grobbulus/Anub etc.) I use rank1 multi shot exclusively since it's more mana->damage efficient.

 

Rukka

i'm horde. doesn't black grasp only work on mobs that have mana? dunno if it's worth it dropping my general's gloves for those.
What ranks exactly would show to be the best DPM? I'm also kind of looking to be somewhat jewish about using my consumables on the longer, yet easier fights.
here is my profile. http://ctprofiles.net/1830429

 

balgrim

While I'm not hearin' ya on the religious/ethnic slur, the best damage per mana rank of multi shot is rank1. Rank1 Aimed Shot is similarly the best mana -> damage, but if you combo r1/r1 you'll have way less consumption than you could chew through on just about any boss fight. I typically opt to keep with r6 Aimed / r1 Multi.

Black Grasp is absolutely terrible if you're currently using DS, Vek'lor's, or CS. The hit to your damage is not worth the mana you regenerate.

 

Starks

Not on my home computer atm, but iirc for me the DPM values of Multi-shot rank 5 is something like 2.3 and Multi-shot rank 1 is something like 7.1. And no, Black Grasp only drains from mobs with mana but you gain 8 mana every shot, regardless of the mob or the shot.

EDIT:

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say you're alliance, but I think that 26+ mp5 (For me, with Rhok) is worth more than the 12 AP and .37 crit difference between Grasp and DS, or the 14 AP and .41 crit difference between Vek'lor's and Grasp, especially pre-naxx where Mp5 hunter gear is pretty scarce.

 

Rukka

good advice. do you get an extra 8/5 if the target has mana?

 

• frmorrison

Black grasp's mana gain works on all mobs/players. No, the dps on R12 gloves is better than Black Grasp, just use some consumables, and sell the gloves/mats you would have used to create the gloves to buy more consumables ;).

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Rukka

i think im just gonna get those gloves and use them when i'm tryin to save myself from using consumeables. tbh i save almost all my consumeables for naxx or when im tryin to get epeen +.

 

balgrim

Yeah, I'm alliance~> so I have the benefit of JoW and BoW.

The mana regen is only valuable if you're having mana issues that can't be resolved with simple (and cheap) consumables. Even then, the use of r1 multi shot will alleviate much of the mana woes. Black Grasp is about the only mana regen item worth considering, and it can be circumvented with appropriate buffs/consumables.

If you can preserve your mana bar throughout a fight using consumables, do so.
If you can't, or choose not to use full consumables, use rank 1 multi shot for efficiency.
If you refuse to use r1 multi-shot, or the situation doesn't warrant it (need as much burst as possible) then concede to mana regen gear if the amount of regen is efficient.

For optimal sustained damage, just spend the few gold on mana potions and farm up Demonic Runes.

 

Rukka

sorry mr. alliance, but simple and cheap adds up. and i'm tryin to avoid my dps completely sucking cuz i dont want to waste consumeables. so BGotD and a lower rank Multi should be sufficient enough though, especially with rapid fire+quick shots.

 

Starks

Well, like was stated above, rank 12 gloves would be alot of trade-off for damage, but there's not really anything else to spend the obsidian shards on, so yeah I'd suggest getting your guild to craft a BGotD if you can. I recently replaced my GS gloves for them and have been really happy with the results. But, IMO, you should be putting in the time to farm consumables for raiding anyways, and on new fights you'd probably wanna use Rank 12 Gloves with alot of consumables, should help your mana issues enough :D

 

• frmorrison

I looked up the avg. price of black grasp, 1100g, then I looked major mana potion, 3g.

So 366 pots or sub-par gloves?

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Zeboim

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...=1#post1231251

This post should answer most of your questions.

 

Twid

I use the BGotD in my horde guild, as our DS rates have been abysmal enough that our highest geared hunter has 6/8 (currently on the twin emps). As is usually the case, we don't have a shaman dedicated to us, so the lack of mana spring/tide really pushes the bounds of my mana pool, even with chewing on major mana pots and double mana oil on my weapons.

I've done modifications to Rooke's hunter simulation spreadsheet, adding the 24 mp5 to the BGotD, and adding a separate row on the damage tab listing how much damage I would do before going OOM, since the spreadsheet factors mp5 quite nicely. I've even modeled major mana potions as a 60ish mp5 buff (can't remember what I set it as exactly). After equipping and unequipping the BGotD in exchange for DS gloves, the benefit of using the grasp is seriously huge. It allows me to go balls to the wall on farmed content without going to the consumables extremes that are typical of new fights, and it makes each consumable that i do use that much more effective.

Since mp5 scales your uptime with respect to itself, each point of mp5 you can acquire allows you to be up for longer, thus making further mp5 even more valuable.

And in the case where you get those ideal situations of having a stationary short fight, with mana spring/tide down and getting 100% efficiency from them, and it's not towards the end of the night when your stacks of consumables have dwindled, then sure, slap on your highest ap/crit gloves. If I had 15 agi enchants on all my gloves, I'd probably use DS over BGotD on trash and short fights where mana isn't an issue. But I could only afford one, and now my gloves are 58 RAP, 1.57% crit, 24 mp5.

 

Kytrarewn

Compared to the crappy plate belt, crappy mail belt, and the PvP toy Breastplate, Mail Tunic and Shield, the Black Grasp is the optimal use of Obsidian Shards. So, your Out Of Pocket Expense is:

1 Flask of Supreme Power (50-90 gold)
8 Enchanted Leather (3.25 each, or 26 gold total)

Even assuming the worst, this brings you to 116 gold, plus a 50 gold combine fee (assuming your guild doesn't have the pattern).

166 gold, divided by 3 gold per potion, is 55 potions.

1800 average mana per potion use: 99,000 mana gained.

The gloves average at 24mp/5, so that's 20,625 seconds attacking.

They pay for themselves in 5.8 hours in combat, or less than two raid nights.

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


Jesus don't want me in a sunbeam
Sunbeams are always made on me
Don't expect me to cry, for all the reasons I'm gonna die
Don't ever ask your kick of me.

 

Grimmarg

Except for the fact that 55MMP (11 stacks) would last me at least one raiding week, if not two whole raiding weeks. (5 raiddays per week).

 

Kytrarewn

That's also because of selective use of consumables (ie. You won't use a 3-4g pot on trash). Pretty much the only time I can see a hunter using an MMP on trash is if the shit REALLY hits the fans (ie. Gargoyle gone horribly, horribly wrong).

I was simply doing the math by amount of mana gained with the pots and the gloves, how often you use consumables and other such concerns (ie. FD/drink vs. pots on most fights without enrape timers).

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


Jesus don't want me in a sunbeam
Sunbeams are always made on me
Don't expect me to cry, for all the reasons I'm gonna die
Don't ever ask your kick of me.

 

Keltan

Using Thug's HunterCalc spreadsheet, going from Dragonstalker gloves to Grasp of the Destroyer is a 3.9 dps loss (for me.) Yes, for those that have no problem farming large amounts of consumables (or are Alliance) they aren't worth the loss of damage.

Using Rhok against a single target, Destroyer's are equivalent to 24/mp5. This is roughly equivalent to Blessing of Wisdom.

Personally (as Horde that hasn't had a chance to complete a full 8/8 DS yet), I love them. At the cost of ~4 dps, I get to have a psuedo-BoW and see how the other half lives.

(And yes, I realize that I am at a totally different point than those of you in Naxx, and my opinion on their value is therefore different.)

 

Groglox

I am curious how much DPS horde hunters are getting with normal buffs and totems. What seems average at least.