I'm totally planning to try this as soon as my computer comes back from repair. As far as I know, no French-speaking server is using it today (and trust me when I say that the server culture there can be quite different).
In the meantime I translated Tyrian's original post in French
First, GDKP has been done on french server since Sargeras is a French server :-p
Secondly, I can only advice strongly against putting such a huge piece of information as a "recruitement post" on your forum for a gdkp run.
In my experience, people won't even read a tenth of it
What I did was post a very small message on the forum (only quoting the sumamry of what a gdkp run is (5 lines) and a detail of what the minimum bids will be, and of course the date and time of the raid).
With that I did a first GDKP run in 3 days and another one (with my reroll) the day after.
I plan to run one GDKP each week from now on and i already receive tons of whisp to know when the next one will be.
You don't need to explain why people should attend such runs and why it does or doesn't create inflation on the server, 99% of the player don't care (and you can just ignore those who do). Just state that you are doing a raid where loot goes to the highest bidder et select carefully those who will come (in order to have the dps to assure the kill of anub) and after a first successfull run, you won't need to worry about looking for people or explaining what the concept is.
Last edited by Kastagne : 10/26/09 at 6:07 PM.
I'm with Mideci on this, I have enough gold, enough to not actually seek more out. I run a fairly tight netgold result per week (+200-400g or so). But I would love to earn more while having fun (dailies are not fun for the 30th times).
What would happen if I gained 2-3k per week due to ToC 25 GDKP (since I can barely pick up any pieces in those runs)? I would begin to spend it on gear for my various alts, likely in other GDKP runs... Essentially I wouldn't really spend on the AH. I would also likely buy stuff like mounts.
Also, when ICC comes out I think GDKP might in fact see an upsurge in popularity. The many guilds will likely leave normal ToC 25 completely alone, I know that my guild is very likely to. What does that mean? The pool of 'carriers' in the GDKP runs suddenly increased a lot. ToC is as if made for GDKP, fast, simple and not very long. This won't change. If people want to gear up fast it will remain the place to do it. And I will be rather surprised if Death's Choice/Verdict won't retain it's position or at the least be within very reasonable distance of the best ICC trinkets. Remember Greatness, it is still second or third best trinket for some specs. There will be a huge market still, and I dare say it might be bigger for all those unlucky melee/hunter raiders that never got it in the guildruns and now they are 'stuck' in ICC. The horror of running /random PuGs is going to drive them to GDKP where they can get their one item almost for sure. *Memory of Gruul's Lair and DST*
As I see it, there will be an increase in 'carriers' and 'one item buyers', essentially the strong people. That isn't too bad since it allows you to customize the raid a lot more, and the chances of failures go down heavily. This is for the average servers. For big servers with very good progression I can imagine the goldvalue of ToC will drop.
So you're saying that GDKP runs are deflationary?...Seems like you're of two minds about the effects of GDKP runs on inflation.
I don't have a general opinion on whether it causes inflation or deflation overall, I'm just looking at individual effects. Someone smarter than me can figure out what effects dominate what other ones in determining whether runs are inflationary or deflationary or neither.
Originally Posted by Kushana
I'm going to point out a few unsubstantiated assumptions on which your arguments rest:
1) That GDKP runs redistribute wealth from rich to poor. In actual fact, they redistribute wealth from people who received items to people who didn't (or received fewer, cheaper items).
2) That GDKP participants who receive money (net) will spend it on transferrable goods (the AH). This assumes that they had a need for transferrable goods, but couldn't meet it because of poverty. Yet these (poor?) people were invited to a GDKP run on the premise that they might spend money.
Most of the discussion upthread focused on GDKP runs with large wealth variations, where wealthy undergeared people buy most of the loot and poor overgeared people are along to make sure the run terminates and collect a slice of the pie. Obviously much of this breaks down for gold runs where all participants have roughly equal wealth.
GDKP participants who make net gold from a well-designed run are going to be either (1) not rich enough to win any contentious bids, or (2) not interested in any loot that drops. Again, I'm falling back on my core assumption of a mixed-wealth GDKP pug, wherein (2) is comprised of good raiders in it for the money.
Originally Posted by Kushana
3) That greater wealth equality results in increased velocity. I can't find any papers to back this one up.
It's standard economics that increased velocity can be a contributor to inflation. You just haven't shown (except by dubious anecdote) that GDKP runs result in greater AH velocity.
In real world economics, wealth equality and monetary velocity aren't going to be related, because real-world economics has lending and investing. If the Orgrimmar bank offered loans for people to level professions or buy epic flight, then all that saved gold would stay in the money supply. However, all the gold in people's WoW banks just sits in giant piles. I'm not an economist by training so I don't know how to explain this precisely, but loans and investing in the RL economy keep saved money in the money supply. The money in my bank account at Bank of America is loaned out and invested by BoA (or like 95% of it is), keeping it circulating. WoW gold in banks just sits there outside the money supply. If we accept that high-income people have a higher savings rate than low-income people, we quickly see how wealth equality can alter monetary velocity.
Anyone happen to have some screenshots of GoldRaidManager in action they could send me in PM? I tried to take a screenshot of the bidding process after our raid yesterday and my game crashed without saving it.
Player Question: I've heard from different sources that if the rules of a Gold DKP system are posted before a raid and the raid leader ninja's the gold pot a GM can intervene and restore the gold to the raid. Is that true?
Blizzard Response: The Game Master staff does not frequently intervene in looting disputes; however, we may provide assistance if a player blatantly attempts to scam others by promising a loot method that is not upheld. Accordingly, I encourage you to speak with raid leaders and master looters before participating in a raid; if they choose a looting method counter to your desires, please respectfully decline the invitation to join their raid. If the looting method is not upheld, open an in-game petition so that our Game Master staff may review the issue further and take appropriate action in accordance with our policies.
This was from the US forums, the previous quoted GM response was from the EU forums. For this reason, as stated in the OP: If the Raid leader doesn't clearly state the rules ingame at the start of a GDKP run, leave the raid immediately.
interesting, but just the thought of how tiring it would be to manage and run it, and keep things organized makes throw up. There's easier ways to get gold with less headache.
GDKP raids are no different to lead than a regular raid aside from the fact instead of asking people to /roll or bid "dkp", you are using a mod and/or spreadsheet to calculate the end pot.
From a raid management perspective however, nothing changes. The first GDKP your server runs, or you personally may run might be exhausting but once you have a stable and trustworthy reputation as a GDKP leader on a specific day at a specific time the organisation of said runs become a non-issue. For example, unlike a lot of the newer attempts at GDKP formation, Blackrock Alliance runs are specifically organised within trade chat akin to any other PuG. Because they are run at generally the same times people know to 'expect' them and your raid fills quite easily.
The major trouble you will encounter forming these runs regularly is having to decide on your 'regulars' and the influx of people who will be prepared to spend on items they need. You just need to find a balance that's right for you.
Some people come to leech achievements, gold or badges from the 10-15 "geared" people on the run and not bid on anything unless it's insanely cheap. If you encounter these kinds of people just set yourself up a list of the under geared people who have said they're here to spend and do not do so accordingly, depending on the gear that drops of course.
Now that you have 2-3 lists; regulars, spenders and a blacklist your life running a successful raid has been made considerably easier.
TLDR: 1 hour planning your first run, 1-2 hours running the raid is going to net you an average of approximately 2500 gold on a server like Blackrock. If you can make that kind of gold in that amount of time, I commend and applaud you! But ~840g /hr isn't exactly bad
Have people succesfully used this system for Ulduar? The reason I am asking is that, let's face it, ToC 10/25 normal is a very easy instance fight mechanics-wise (I don't like the word 'faceroll') and is also very short. You can carry people through it. I would argue that more than half of Ulduar bosses are much complicated than any ToC boss. How do you deal with that? Do you only invite people with Yogg achievement?
GDKP seems to work better for short instances with lots of drops.
Assuming you are very fast, Ulduar will still take about 3,5 to 4 hours, remember this is still some sort of PUG.
People will have to leave for their kids, their work, their cat or whatever and they will cry about not getting their share of the pot.
What you could do for Ulduar ist to set up 2 Raids, 1 to Auriaya and the other day one with keepers to yogg.