Yes you can do this.

Not killing Putricide only prevents you to go to Arthas. Nothing else.

Server culture seems to play heavily into it. Prices in Ner'zhul US have traditionally been fairly low compared to other high-pop servers. We had our first GDKP run on Sunday, and by every comparison here, the pot ended up small. Between Solace for 2.5k, the BOE Str ring for 3k, Dual-blade butcher for 4.2k, Reign of the Dead for 2k and all trophies for 600g each, the final pot ended up at exactly 22k. At such a number, I question its long-term viability here. It's possible there were too many raiders and not enough buyers though.

If all your prices are that low, a pot of almost 1k each will have a much larger relative value than a similar pot elsewhere.

It basically just means there's less gold in circulation on the server, which has caused less inflation. I wouldn't discount the potential of GDKP just because there are fewer zeroes in your figures.

I just noticed this site, which could be an interesting development for GDKP. Does anyone have any more information to shed?

GDKP RUN, Gold Run, Gold Pot, Cash Run:

It appears to be run with suspicious (possibly nefarious) motives. Despite taking most of the text straight from my OP to preface the website, it also has several points worthy of note:

- It mentions every server (from all realms) of both WoW and Aion
- It has a button for 'Live help'
- The text not directly copied from the OP uses somewhat broken English. (Eg: "As a buyer,you can inform us your need")
- It uses the words 'our business'

Basically it looks like a Gold Selling website, except setup for running GDKP raids. Buying gold itself is not mentioned at all. Everything might appear legitimate for now, but it could turn out quite sinister. Interesting text is:

This is quite an interesting/disturbing development. It appears that a model is being set up which will 'run gdkp raids' like a cross realm/game business. Does anyone have more information on this website? Who it's registered to (and in what country). Obviously it's not a charity going by the business text, so people will naturally begin to wonder why exactly they are doing this - and how they would profit from it.

It would be a very unusual situation if Gold Selling type business attempted to organise and run (successfull) GDKP raids for WoW players. The next questions would be: "Why would they do this?" and "How will they profit by doing this?". GDKP raid leaders are often:

- Geared max level characters
- Players fluent in communicating over vent/ingame
- Familiar with class/instance/game mechanics

Therefore, it's natural to assume that any sort of business set up will require some sort of scheme to recruit raid leaders, because they are what make GDKP runs a success. You can't set up a business to run hundreds of GDKP raids over all the Warcraft realms via using your own employees.

But why would you as a raid leader want to get involved? The only scenario I could see is if these raids did something like take 10% of the pot. That 3-5k is sold for real money, and the raid leader receives a split of the money (paid to his credit card). Basically it would turn the recruited Raid Leader into the indirect Gold Seller. If a business like this ran 100 GDKP raids, each with a pot of 30 000 (10% tax taken), they would have 300 000 gold available to sell for real money, and that's their profit, split with the raid leaders. You can see how the model could work.

Or perhaps everyone is charged an 'entry fee'. The money is collected by the raid leader (then onsold for real money), and the rest of the raid is run like any other normal run.

The easiest way to stomp this out, would simply to be to go only on GDKP runs that have no entry fee and take no tax out of the pot. I don't see how else they could make this kind of business model profitable: It needs to suck extra money out of players/pot somehow, and there's only a limited number of ways to do that and not turn them off wanting to go to your run.

Tyrian,

That's not exactly a new thing. Gold sellers are eager to find ways to launder money/gold. For instance, there have been cross-server BG pug groups that will have Ventrilo used to coordinate hosted by a goldseller (name is advertised in vent, etc), with "premium" access if you give then $x or y gold. It was only a matter of time until similar arrangements came around for gdkp.

The idea, based on the portions you quoted, seems to be that they want to groom GDKP leaders to put together runs. They help the leader solve some of the arrangements for the group, then have their "mercenaries" get in the groups to absorb a good portion of the end pot. I don't think it's a particularly great model, as the larger the proportion of mercenaries is the smaller the pot size will be. Perhaps what the site is really trying to do is simply set themselves up as a hub for this sort of activity and make their money mostly off ad revenue and pushing gold from the landing page of the site. That would leave a lucrative opening for raid leaders, as they would basically be getting free help with organizing without having to give a cut of their gold to the site itself (similar to the afforementioned vent hosting for BG pugs). This is just theorizing, of course, but it sounds plausible enough to be worth the 40-60 bucks a year the domain registration+hosting costs.

As for the registrar, they are Domains by Proxy, Inc. registered through GoDaddy. So the registrar values their privacy. Though in all fairness, I use a proxy when registering my domains as well. Less spam to deal with.

Someone could do more digging, but it would go into a gray area rather quickly.

We've all heard the argument against GDKP saying "You're just promoting/encouraging people who buy gold." I think that site is as simple as that. "You want your uber trinket? They usually go for xxxxx gold. You can buy that gold from us and we will link you to a GDKP run on your server who kills the boss who drops it."

It could very well be just trying to leverage the surge in interest in GDKP runs into more customers for gold/cash swaps. They can basically say "Pick any gear you want, we'll help you get it." I wouldn't be surprised if farmers tried to leach gold from the runs as well or use phishing built into the site to steal account info to add to the company coffers. Regardless of how it develops, I'd advise nothing but the highest level of caution in dealing with a site like this. I agree with Tyrian in that it must have a potentially profitable business hook somewhere that will be detrimental to the player base at large.

I can't picture any scenario really where as a raid leader I'd want to get involved with these guys. They offer "Raid leaders will get a credit after every successful raid" but it doesn't say what you use those "credits" for.

Since it clearly seems to be setup to run as a business I agree that it seems they're in it to make money. I'm all for capitalism and making money for your efforts, but the only way (I know of) for someone not employed by Blizzard to make real money based on actions in game is against the Terms of Service. So why would I want to get involved with someone that may be breaking the Terms of Service?

Even if the way they *ARE* making money is by hosting ads not breaking the Terms of Service and not selling gold themselves, I don't see ANY benefit they can provide to a raid leader that I can't do on my own via the realm forum posts and the mmo-champion raid comp tool.


I would be more concerned that this is another way for gold sellers or scammers to find people in game who have lots of gold. Since they have raid leaders submit a report "Submit reports about the the GDKP raid including things like Drops and their transaction prices; Total revenue; How much gold split to every worker; who was absent". Although I usually post a summary of prices on the realm forums, I always remove the names of who bought what.

Hey you, successful GDKP runners.

I got a question, I've been running GDKP raids for quite a while on Dentarg EU - both ToC25 and ICC25.
While ToC25 doesnt seem to impose any trouble, especially when it was with guild "boosters", Festergut and Rotface seem to be way too hard for your average joe and cant be possibly beaten by my GDKP raids for 3 weeks already. Closest i've come on Festergut is around 10-11% and then wipe on enrage, and that is with babystitting, explaining tactics, calling out for possible blinds/cooldowns usage on vent. Now even thinking about attempting Rotface makes me cringe. is this the same for you, on average size realms? Or is it Dentarg being obnoxiously bad?

While not technicaly a GDKP run, it is a pug with both regulars, alts and more or less random people from various guilds, we do get Rotface down. We haven't tried Festergut yet but that is because we don't have the necessary dps to beat the enrage. With Rotface, it's the situational awareness that is required and not what kind of dps output you can perform.

So it's not impossible but can take a lot of wipes before getting it right.

I do a run on Spinebreaker that is in a similar situation. To date, everyone has been very understanding, and after three weeks of runs, I am turning away more and more people. Honestly, when the "Songs of battle" buffs are put through, I feel that the GDKP runs will start to balloon in success and gold pot.

Hi, I run a gold pug on Dunemaul US that this past week got Rotface and for the past three weeks got Festergut. My story quickly: I ran a successful random-converted-to-gdkp TOC25 through most of 3.2 (ended up as 2 toc25, 2 ony25 runs over 4.5 hours one night a week), and now in 3.3 I moved the pug to IC25. My guild is ten man focused so we bring 7-10 of our raiders who are intimately familiar with the mechanics on 10 man (this includes 2 skilled tanks but usually only 1-2 healers), and then I have a rolling calendar invite that includes the most skilled puggers I met throughout TOC25. There's a churn of maybe 8 or so spots each week with the remiander being regulars.

Basically what I told my puggers was that I wouldn't be bringing any poorly geared alts (or poorly geared mains, for that matter), and while a willingness to bid on items is still necessary, geared/skilled/knowledgeable players are what I am looking for first and foremost. What I've found is that apart from the regular crew that likes having a decent 25 man to run (but only wants to devote one afternoon a week to it), I can also grab two or three main raiders from other guilds that were asked to sit out that week who are interested in badges, a chance at loot, and a couple thousand gold. With the possibility of hard modes starting next week, I expect several guilds that are currently running 2 IC25 raids (half alts/half mains x 2) will switch to one main raid. If this is a common occurrence, hopefully successful GDKP runners can pick up a few of the geared/skilled alts so that their pugs have more success.

tldr: bring the player, not the bankroll and IC25 non-attempt-limited bosses are very possible.

I've had a similar problem, Torgrimm. My ICC GDKP runs have been moderately successful downing first four bosses consistently and downing Blood Princes last week, but not enough 7.5k folks to down Festergut.

One of the changes I've made is I'm allowing people to reserve a spot in advance by sending me a link to a parse of them doing 7.5k dps on a single target fight (or pointing it out to me on recount if they're in raid with me). This has meant that I'm slowly building a core group that's evolving into a 25 man raid capable of downing Festergut regularly.


I'll also note that as I get higher and higher dps players attending I'm going to start running a ToGC run because many of the heroic trinkets are still Best or 2nd Best in slot. Plus I want the achievement. One thing I can't recommend strongly enough is REQUIRE A DEPOSIT at the start of the raid. If you have people in the raid capable of actually doing ToGC there's often a couple of personality issues in these raids. Many of the people tend to get impatient with failure, blame others and feel like they're too busy and elite to hang around wiping so they leave and then you have to search around to bring in a replacement. You basically lose one of the biggest benefits of GDKP which is good people stay and people you have to boot are easy to replace.

Alternatively you could make it known that if that if people act like children and quit when it's not going perfectly you just won't bring them next week. I don't know if its just me, but my runs get 100ish signups (about 60 on forums, then 30or so via in game mail and pm's) for 25 spots. So the threat of just never getting another invite is very real, especially when people have generally waited a fair few weeks just to get a spot in the actual group.

We do however kill Festergut and Rotface, and were getting sub 5% wipes on Putri last week, and have a very VERY good core of people.

Thats an interesting point actually.... How are other GDKP run leaders balancing the need to take 'the best' players to kill the new bosses, with the desire to get the best bang for your buck (biggest pots)?

At this point in the game, I'm not running IC25 for a big pot, but to gear up my 10 man team. The big pot comes naturally - we are flush with gold and willing/able to buy everything we want. I believe that if you want to secure a large pot, you can run an IC25 gold pug that specifically is stopping at Saurfang - a raid like that can easily be carried by a core of 8-10 competent people. The gear check component of Festergut really only allows you to carry 1-3 dead weight (WoL), and truly incompetent people can easily wipe you on either abom boss.

Another big aspect of success seems to be simply people being familiar with the fight mechanics - our first week on Rotface was incredibly painful, but this past week went much smoother.

I think if you're just looking for gold/hr, stack physical dps so you get big pots for the dagger, bryntroll, and Deathbringer's Will, and let the rest of the instance rot; I stack skill/gear over bankroll and easily see a consistent 2.5k+ split if we clear 6 bosses.

As I first started hosting ICC25 raids, my priority was on bringing well geared and skilled players over rich ones. My theory was that killing more bosses would create a greater overall pot than just killing a few with a lot of money spent on those items. However, my raid gets more popular each week and I have the luxury of choosing from several very well geared players. I can easily beat the enrage timers at this point, so I'm now asking players how much gold they plan to spend and bringing the richest ones. The past three weeks we have killed 5, 6, and 7 bosses and made gold pots of 5200, 5000, and 5700g per member. (Quick update, this week I had so much interest I formed 2 raids, and the split pots were 6528 and 7308.)

I don't take deposits or anything like that, instead I invite more than 25 people to the raid and decide which ones to bring based on who actually showed up. Spots are NEVER reserved in my raids. I make decisions in the following order:
1) I bring players geared and skilled enough to kill the more difficult bosses. If you can host a successful weekly raid, this problem will take care of itself.
2) I aim for a good raid composition, both for buffs and to make sure each item has multiple bidders.
3) I bring the players with the most gold.
4) If all other things are equal, I try to rotate in players who had to sit out in previous weeks.

TL;DR: When you are starting out, bring the "best" players, and later on you can bring the rich ones.

Your best source of players are known and un-known 10Man guilds that full clear every week. Get a couple of their best players and you have a raid. Alts of players who play too much are also a great source, think GM's and officers and core members of the best guild/s on your server.

It's all about e-networking if you want to pug hard stuff successfully. The most important aspect of this though is to run quick, fun, and successful raids. Successful gold pots, and successful "progression" wise.



However I came here today to ask a question, after initiating Frostmourne quite successfully to GDKP many months ago, many others have started up their own runs and iv'e noticed that there are very many "shady" characters running them. From people making sure that you are not bidding on the same items as them so they can buy it for the minimum bid, to people ninja'ing pots, to people who have absolutly no business being a raid leader. Have others found this to be the case on servers which run alot of GDKP runs? I have even been rejected from runs because I run alot of GDKP runs still myself, and when inquiring why I am not allowed to come the only answer I get is "We're not stuipd, we know what your upto"

To me it seemed like such a great system to introduce, and it's still working great on my multiple 25 ICC and occasional 25 TOTC runs, which are more popular then ever, however I feel I have turned the pugging enviroment on Frostmourne from bad to worse. Thoughts?

I just talked to some one in game saying they're from GDKPRUNs. The person claims that they're in the planning stages right now but they just want to provide a service for people looking for GDKP runs and raid leaders, and if they get famous they might get sponsorships (from gold sellers of course). They offer raid leaders 1000g for every run, of course the catch is that you have to bring their clients who are probably gold buyers. So you're not too far off the mark, but they don't offer you real money, at least not right now.

I was also contacted this weekend by someone from GDKPruns. I have screenshots of the whole conversation if anyone is really interested in what they were offering. From chatting with the person for a bit it seems they want you to advertise your runs on their site, they will help you find players. I am assuming people who buy gold from them, in return they will give you 1k gold per week.

Seemed way to fishy to me, but we now seem to understand their business model.

Send me a PM if you want the screenshots, I don't want to junk up a good thread with them.

I don't manage GDKP runs, but the concept of the site (even were it honest) seems backwards. The raid leader's ability to hand-pick appropriate proportions of skilled players and buyers, while also maintaining raid/loot balance, is critical to the run's success. Having someone else you don't personally know or trust involve themselves in that process doesn't sound all that appealing.

Even if these "site managed" GDKP runs are successful, there's the moral issue of where your pot is coming from. If ever there was a direct line drawn between loot and real world cash, this is it. And as the raid leader you're getting kick-backs for it; that's a hell-a bad position to be in.

As glamorous as the life of a pimp may be (*chortle*), I really don't think anyone who is currently able to set up good runs would go for this. You don't risk a stable, successful run on something that could easily bring it crashing down. Be that crash by Blizzards "gold team", the influx of impotent raiders who can't complete the fights, or any other possible outcomes.

When ever you run a GDKP run you encourage gold buying regardless of how you look at it. I realize that these will increase the amount of "bought" gold which turns up to your raid. However when push comes to shove by running a system which is solely based around gold and someone knowing they will get gear if they have the most gold you encourage gold buying. For instance you go to TOTC and someone says I only just hit 80 but I have 120000 gold are you going to turn him down just because he was new? Probably not because you need someone there to spend gold and if someone has so much expendable gold the pot usually raises especially if they do not know how much an item is worth and they start the bid 3 times higher than the usual value of it.

You also have to consider every 'type' of person which running a GDKP run attracts even though they are running the GDKP often they either need 1 piece from the run or they are doing it just for the gold themselves and even though technically you are providing a service for this gold is it really that different from gold buying, you start a run with full intentions to not buy anything and encourage other people to pay more for what they want. In that case do you really care where your gold is coming from so long as you get it?

I understand that elicit gold is always going to turn up at these sort of runs just like it always shows up in the AH. My main point though is that through a site like this you are virtually guaranteed to have that gold in your pot because of the site and the site is giving you gold/whatever to launder this gold for them. That is a very bad position to be in no matter how you look at it.