I was reading the other thread on classes and personalities, and it made me think a bit more about guild organization. It occurred to me that between class channels and sharing the same role, most people probably socialize more with the other members of the same class than anyone else, which invariably leads to cliques (without the negative connotation or aspects) forming. And then I thought about how there seems to be natural rivalries between classes. Rogues versus Warriors. Mages versus Warlocks. Hunters versus... everyone. =P But then I realized that it seems to be much more prevalent among DPS classes - maybe it's because DPS meters are inherently easier to compare with than healing meters, but in my guild at least, I don't really ever see any Priest vs. Druid rivalries, though I wonder if Shaman vs Pally will be a bitter rivalry in the expansion, with the past 2 or so years forcing the comparison between the two classes on every raiding guild so much.

In our guild, the warlocks think of the mages as whiners who start bitching if CoE doesn't go on the mob within 0.000000000001 seconds, while the mages probably think of warlocks as overpowered-in-PvP lazy bastards who don't like to CoE/Summon them (I refuse to summon anyone who's asking for a summon despite having been in Org 20 minutes before raid invites even started, especially if they're a mage). I even have a mage leveled up to 60 just so I could prove to myself that the mage is, in fact, the easier DPS caster class to play.

What about you guys? Do the classes who share similar roles have rivalries? If so, do they always stay friendly? And does it extend to healing/support classes?

I've found the rivalries come from the lack of communication. Healers almost always exist in a class channel along with a channel for all raid healers to communicate, more comradery in keeping the tank(s) up than keeping your Slice n Dice cycle efficient or your aim shot/multi cycle optimal. This becomes extremely apparent when your guild starts doing C'thun a lot, where every raider assumes the same role (for the most part) and responsibilities and must communicate with all classes for a good long stint.

I bet it mostly stems from cross-class loot.

Cross-class loot is a big deal, along with the aforementioned competitive nature of DPS classes (cuz according to Bliz, everyone's supposed to deal damage).

Personally I get along with a few of our hunters, priests and tanks much better than I do with even the other mages. This is probably because we interact more on vent, do small groups together and are more on the same level of the "hardcore progression" scale.

In my experience in the mage vs. warlock rivalry it mostly revolves around cross-class loot. My view is somewhat tainted due to our guild using an open-bidding system with a hefty amount of allowed inflation, so take it with a grain of salt. Mainly the issue is that there are usually only 2-3 warlocks in a raid, therefore most warlocks got their Nemesis for basically zero. In contrast we usually have 4-6 mages in a raid who have fought tooth and nail for every piece of Netherwind as BWL has been rather unkind to us. It has come to the point now where the warlocks can pretty much cherry pick the cross-class loot without the mages being able to make much of a dent in their point leads.

I really don't think it has much to do with damage anymore. The writing has been on the wall as far as mage vs. warlock damage tipping in favor of mages since AQ40 with Naxx pretty much being the final nail in the coffin.

I'm not sure that we have any specific class rivarly to be honest, but thats most likely a product of strictly class defined loot and a zero-sum no bid system.

When you take the interactive competitivness out of the game and leave only absolutes; x is ahead of y - grats x, you do away with a lot of the seeds for rivalry.

This is at least reasonably true for rogues/warriors.

Weapons are a big part of both classes DPS, and rogues are usually really sensitive about the whole "Warrior DPS" issue too. Seems that way to me at least.

It depends really on the players, how long they've known eachother, and how concerned people are with their status (loot, DPS meters, etc.).

As an Alliance Hunter in Naxx, I am competing over loot with my fellow Hunters, Paladins, and the only class that loots more than a Hunter-- Emo Druids. Rogues and Warriors are ever-fearful that I'm going to go gunning on some Axe/Dagger/Sword and take it away from someone who would get considerably more benefit. In addition, Rogues and Fury Warriors both outdamage Hunters on most raid boss scenarios, so there is a little bit of resentment in being an "inferior" dps class. Ranged DPS-- Warlocks/Mages/Hunters, can have natural rivalries since they fill similar roles, and between the two true caster classes they have monopolized the debuff slots. That's fine, short of Expose Weakness and Hunter's Mark, there's no debuff we Hunters really need to be applying in a raid situation.


Honestly though, I think you only encounter bad rivalries in the general sense if the guild hasn't been together for a considerable time, or if there are specific agitators that seek to undermine or make a large issue out of some grievance. Personal rivalries might develop over time between two people or small groups of people, but I think for the most part any rational raider who wants to see the guild progress as a whole is going to try to get along and work with their guildmates. A little healthy competition can be motivating at times, especially when learning new content, but I think if you're part of a guild unit that works well together, the rivalries should remain friendly.

That said, I acknowledge that I know my fellow hunters 10x better than most of the rest of my guild. Some of them I've been raiding with consistently since we first stepped foot into MC a year and a half ago, and thanks to our guild-hunter channel, they're the people I communicate with most directly in the game. I can tell you the talent spec of any hunter in my guild, the names of their pets, what gear they have, how their rep is with key factions, roughly how much gold/possessions they have, as well as their first name, where they live/what they do for a living, and what they ate for breakfast.


It helps that I have the priveledge of either previously knowing them IRL or meeting them at IRL guild events.

everyone loves me.

I think the only thing that causes any animosity between our warlocks and mages are debuff slots.

"In our guild, the warlocks think of the mages as whiners who start bitching if CoE doesn't go on the mob within 0.000000000001 seconds,"

Other way around, I usually bitch when those greedy locks throw on Shadows and triple Agony. I'm about that known about it that I just have to growl "Warlocks.." or "Elements" on Vent to get the desired effect. Even more now I'm Fire-specced since I can see the effect almost immediately. (I.E. A crapload of 150 {450} numbers from SCTD.) Rivalries are mostly between rogues and hunters about the dmgmeters, though since 1.11 they've been shut up on that one in Naxx/AQ. And ofcourse friendly, tho some hunters reserve the "huntard" comment.

As for Balgrim, same here. I can tell you roughly the occupation of every mage in the guild, age. (Give or take a year or two for some less actives.), talentspec, can usually take a 90 % correct guess at the gear and at the /afk reasons. (I.E. one has kids and thus had to earlier in our raiding go afk at 23:30 for 15 minutes to feed the youngest.) They are the ones I communicate with, a lot. As said in the other thread, a clique. And not complaining about it. Warlocks usually are the ones moaning in their own class in my guild, something I have grown to love for sheer popcorn threads. <3

warriors vs. rogues for daggers, swords, maces trinkets, necklaces and rings.

But for the most part, we <3 each other.

Rogues love druids!

Well, in our guild it's pretty much about rogues vs. hunters. The rivalries started in MC when Domo was killed and the Core Hound Tooth dropped: both rogues and hunters wanted it and it was given to rogues first, wich pissed them (the hunters) off ... even rogues that were new got priority on these items. Loot-wise this rivalries continued in BWL with e.g. the Dragon Fang Talisman and the Dragon Fang Blade ...

But the real discussion started when pve/raid specs were demanded by all classes. Rogues specced combat, mages went frost [...] and hunters ... well, some claimed that survival would be the best way to go, because it's dmg-wise the best spec, although the hated marksman tree would deliver so much more to the raid due to it's aura, which was demanded by the rogues. They claimed survival's a pvp spec and shouldn't be allowed. Pretty stupid imho, but this discussion drived them (and others) crazy, until somewhen in AQ40 one hunter was kicked because he caused to much trouble, the typical "I'm against everything the raidleader says" type of guy. After this event, everything calmed down ...
Now, in Nax, every main-hunter in our raid specced MM, two guys even went 20/31/0 for patchwerk - the best spec for this fight (500 dps), although it's kinda weak in other situations. I don't think there are much rivalries left yet, at least I don't see anything which makes me believe something else. :)

Cross class loot always causes some trouble, but it's not that bad. We don't hate each other, we want to progress together. So why should we fight about loot priority, we'll get it anway someday. When we recruit people their attitude is a big factor in the decision if we should keep them or not, so the majority believes the same way as I do. There will always be some jokes, about the droprate of cloth t3 setpieces (80% Priest/Mage/WL, 10%, druid/pally/hunter, 10% warry/rogue), but nothing serious. Kinda cool how our developed in the past months. :) In fact, this is the only incident I remember in the past weeks .. except the lag-stress, but this belongs to some other thread .. ;P

(Sorry for my bad english, it's not my native language and it's pretty late by now (half past 12 in the morning) ... I hope you're able to read/understand it though :/)

warriors vs shamans with totems...

I find that the cross class contention, if you will, is diagonal.

I was asked, as a rogue, for my roguish opinions of a fellow rogue. I said I'd never been in a 5 person instance with him because who goes anywhere with two rogues, so what would I know? But there (was) a vertical group of a warrior or two, a priest or two, a druid or two, eccet, with whom I routinely formed 5 person groups to go places with.

Problems came from other classes that weren't in that vertical group, and the same could be seen across the guild.

There's other stuff I think between rogue/warrior. For example, I hate rogues because they always find a way to pull aggro even tho they have vanish. I mean, noth teleports, they KNOW it's an aggro wipe, however as soon as noth targets the tank because he landed a sunder, they backstab twice in a row then bitch. You add to this the whole dps warrior vs rogue issues, especially on weapons which is the base of all drama and you have warriors hating rogues for being damage meters idiots who don't understand threat and rogues blaming warriors for being terrible tanks and stealing their dps loot.

However in the end, I never had particular problems with rogues, and I'd take rogues to do dps over warriors because I'm horde and we see our warriors pulling aggro more often than our rogues. Don't think I've seen a fight in naxx where a warrior didn't pull aggro and die before the end. Sometimes they last till execute before pulling aggro, most of the time they die around 85% ^^

I hate them in a friendly way. Just like I hated just about everyone when I played a warlock and I had to farm shards to summon afk people. And everyone hated me when I played a hunter, back before the talent review, and I got loot from the first 2 ony kills(DS helm and GS bp) because I was the only hunter in the raid. And I always avoided death. Ah good times :(

Rogues and healers. Oh boy.

For Items....
Rogues and DPS Warriors are always fun (Especially with Swords and Human Racials)

Not to forget Paladins... who believe its their right to have access to every Cloth/Leather/Mail/Plate healing item (GL Priests), anything and everything with spell crit, aswell as equal right with warriors on 2H DPS weapons (cus DW is the only option they should take, to piss the rogues/hunters off more).


Then yeah rogues really dont like it when they die, they make it sound like healers have a personal vendetta against healing them xD

Surprisingly, I get along decently w/ most of my guild's fury warriors.

I hate all classes equally. Even other rogues.

Mages/Rogues competeing for top dps spots is pretty fun.