Kegsta

We are thinking about getting a nightfall crafted, and im looking for a deeper understanding of the debuff system, as far as i know some debuffs are protected and won't get pushed off by fireball and deep wound dots (curses, sunder for example). while others will just fly off when 10 fireballs/deep wounds land. Does anyone know how far along the debuff priority system is, i read in another thread here that winters chill can be knocked off.

here are the debuffs im intrested in, and if having 8 fireballs and 5 deep wounds is going to effect there viability in raids.

Edit: after more research heres how my current list is coming along

Unknowns
- Gift of Arthus
- Ignite
- Expose Weakness
- Hemo
- Winter's Chill
- Warlock Shadow Vun
- CoA
- Priest Shadow Vun
- Vampiric Embrace
- Curse of Weakness
- Immolate
- Insect Swarm


Highest Priority Debuffs List
- Sunder Armour
- Fairy Fire
- JoW/JoL
- Demo shout
- Thunderclap
- Fire Vun (Imp scorch)
- Curse of Reck
- Curse of Elements
- Curse of Shadows
- Hunters Mark

Medium or High Priority
- Corruption


Not Protected - Trash Debuffs - Lowest Priority
-Serphent Sting
-Deep Wounds
-Fireball
-Rupture
-Garotte
-Deadly Poison


Not Protected - Good Debuffs
- Nightfall (only lasts 5 seconds)

 

• Fogbug

thunderclap and demo shout are definitely high priority debuffs. I imagine fairy fire and ignite and the judgements are, too. Nightfall is most definitely not protected and will be pushed off pretty often

 

studski

I'd imagine that Gift of Arthas would have a relatively low priority given its high proc-rate and long duration.

 

Jaete

Both winter's chill and the nightfall proc will keep dropping off pretty often. Apparently stuff you cast directly (such as curses) has higher priority than stuff that procs off something else (such as nightfall), and this even applies if the proc has a 100% chance of happening, such as maxed out winter's chill.

 

Kegsta

good information thx, looks like nightfall wont be worth us making.

 

Maledict

I think we would need word from Blizzard for this - I think it's more intelligent than just "direct on versus procs". Serpent Sting never seems to last any length of time on our mobs - whilst winters chill and the scorch debuff seem as sticky as sunder armour almost. Have never once seen either of them pushed off.
Same with ignite - it seems to have a much bigger priority than you would think for a 4 second DoT, as we've never had one pushed off yet.


Maybe we're just lucky or the warlocks are slacking... :)

 

Mosh

Curse of Recklessness is not protected, only CoS and CoE are, which is why keeping it up on eg Vael is such a bitch sometimes.

 

Mosh

They've given up long ago.

 

Kegsta

just did some testing on golmag with CoR, FF, fire vun and having everyone spamming serphent sting, SW:P ect to try and push them off and they all stayed, so id say the priority system is fairly tuned ATM

 

Brissa

Nightfall has a very short procc duration so I dont think it falling of before its run out is a major problem.

 

◊ Kaubel

There's never much danger of FF getting pushed off during our raids. It's keyed to one of my mouse buttons and I compulsively hit it once every 20 seconds or so.

 

Ashuko

Pardon my ignorance, but the value of FF is not immediately apparent. Would someone mind explaining?

http://ctprofiles.net/69539

 

• Maestroquark

Armor reduction = more DPS.

What are you waiting for, a certain shade of green?

 

Ashuko

I guess I never really considered the armor reduction to be that significant. Actually, I thought it was pretty INsignificant, especially on bosses.

http://ctprofiles.net/69539

 

Lumi

It will add more dps than any DoT you could throw on.

 

• frmorrison

Bosses have around 4000 armor, so sunder takes care of about half, so anything else that further removes armor is useful (like Curse of Reck and FF). With hunters, warrior, and Rogues around, those debuffs do more damage than any other debuff by virtue of those classes all hitting much harder than before.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Ashuko

From now on our druids are gonna keep it up. You learn something new every day. Always another opportunity to feel like a total noob.

http://ctprofiles.net/69539

 

Nurru

Errrr

Decreasing boss armor is probably the most significant dps increase you have available to your raid.

edit: If you don't know about FF does this mean you don't use CoR either?

< Aislinana> Why would it be my job to sleep with vontre? Don't I have standards?

 

Sancus

Yep, it's only 5 seconds long, and debuffs are pushed off in a queue. So if there's 10 non-protected debuffs up and 6 protected ones, Nightfall proccing will push off the oldest non-protected buff. For it to be pushed off, 9 *new* debuffs would need to be applied within its 5 second duration.

That isn't going to happen.

<Vontre> I removed the cooldown on evo
<sancus> and what happened?
<Vontre> DPS went down rofl

 

Kegsta

keep the info comming guys, ill update the list accordingly, if you know and debuffs ive missed please post and ill add them. Aswell as any from the unknown list.

as for curse of wreck and FF, they make a massive differencve to hunter,rogue and warrior dps, keep them on almost every mob.

 

• frmorrison

Curse of "Wreck" is not protected, at least I recall it getting knocked off once. Rogue debuffs, Rupture/Deadly Poison, are also not protected.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Hangman

I am pretty sure corruption is protected , have to test more to be sure.

 

Kegsta

We tested Curse of Recklessness on Golmag last night, 1 wreck application, everyone spamming debuffs for 2 minutes and we couldn't knock it off. At 2:00 it needed to be reapplied. Maybe they upped its priority recently along with winters chill and fire vun, some people have reported those being knocked off while others say they never will get knocked off.

edit:
if corruption is protected, and has the same priority as other protected debuffs it could easily explain the results we are seeing above. (we only had 2 locks in the raid)

 

arch

There were 2-3 blue posts explaining how it worked like one month ago, but I can't really remember all the details anymore. Here's what I do remember:

Priority works like this: 1) passive important debuffs like COS,COE,Sunder,Imp scorch/winters chill and so on. There's lots of debuffs that qualify for this but I guess some were left out/forgotten.
2) Controlled dots
3) procs/uncontrolled dots

Ignite is NOT high priority. It should be, but it's being treated like any other procced debuff - contantly getting bumped off.

In my eyes the fireball dot is working under the "controlled dots" part, allowing it to bump off ignite and such. It stays for long.

 

◊ Oggie

Ignite is pretty low. Not sure, but I think it keeps on the uncontrolled list, without it refreshing every cast to the top of the pile.

Can anyone else confirm this?

I know it's irking a lot of mages.