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Old 08/18/06, 2:35 AM   #1
Kegsta
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Blackrock
We are thinking about getting a nightfall crafted, and im looking for a deeper understanding of the debuff system, as far as i know some debuffs are protected and won't get pushed off by fireball and deep wound dots (curses, sunder for example). while others will just fly off when 10 fireballs/deep wounds land. Does anyone know how far along the debuff priority system is, i read in another thread here that winters chill can be knocked off.

here are the debuffs im intrested in, and if having 8 fireballs and 5 deep wounds is going to effect there viability in raids.

Edit: after more research heres how my current list is coming along

Unknowns
- Gift of Arthus
- Ignite
- Expose Weakness
- Hemo
- Winter's Chill
- Warlock Shadow Vun
- CoA
- Priest Shadow Vun
- Vampiric Embrace
- Curse of Weakness
- Immolate
- Insect Swarm


Highest Priority Debuffs List
- Sunder Armour
- Fairy Fire
- JoW/JoL
- Demo shout
- Thunderclap
- Fire Vun (Imp scorch)
- Curse of Reck
- Curse of Elements
- Curse of Shadows
- Hunters Mark

Medium or High Priority
- Corruption


Not Protected - Trash Debuffs - Lowest Priority
-Serphent Sting
-Deep Wounds
-Fireball
-Rupture
-Garotte
-Deadly Poison


Not Protected - Good Debuffs
- Nightfall (only lasts 5 seconds)

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Old 08/18/06, 2:51 AM   #2
• Fogbug
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Orc Warrior
 
Mal'Ganis
thunderclap and demo shout are definitely high priority debuffs. I imagine fairy fire and ignite and the judgements are, too. Nightfall is most definitely not protected and will be pushed off pretty often


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Old 08/18/06, 3:05 AM   #3
studski
Glass Joe
 
Murloc Warlock
 
Gul'dan
I'd imagine that Gift of Arthas would have a relatively low priority given its high proc-rate and long duration.

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Old 08/18/06, 5:57 AM   #4
Jaete
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Tauren Druid
 
Auchindoun (EU)
Both winter's chill and the nightfall proc will keep dropping off pretty often. Apparently stuff you cast directly (such as curses) has higher priority than stuff that procs off something else (such as nightfall), and this even applies if the proc has a 100% chance of happening, such as maxed out winter's chill.

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Old 08/18/06, 6:20 AM   #5
Kegsta
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Blackrock
good information thx, looks like nightfall wont be worth us making.

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Old 08/18/06, 6:45 AM   #6
Maledict
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Undead Mage
 
Bloodhoof (EU)
I think we would need word from Blizzard for this - I think it's more intelligent than just "direct on versus procs". Serpent Sting never seems to last any length of time on our mobs - whilst winters chill and the scorch debuff seem as sticky as sunder armour almost. Have never once seen either of them pushed off.
Same with ignite - it seems to have a much bigger priority than you would think for a 4 second DoT, as we've never had one pushed off yet.


Maybe we're just lucky or the warlocks are slacking... :)

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Old 08/18/06, 8:26 AM   #7
Mosh
Don Flamenco
 
Undead Warlock
 
Al'Akir (EU)
Curse of Recklessness is not protected, only CoS and CoE are, which is why keeping it up on eg Vael is such a bitch sometimes.

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Old 08/18/06, 8:26 AM   #8
Mosh
Don Flamenco
 
Undead Warlock
 
Al'Akir (EU)
Originally Posted by Maledict
Maybe we're just lucky or the warlocks are slacking... :)
They've given up long ago.

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Old 08/18/06, 9:29 AM   #9
Kegsta
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Blackrock
just did some testing on golmag with CoR, FF, fire vun and having everyone spamming serphent sting, SW:P ect to try and push them off and they all stayed, so id say the priority system is fairly tuned ATM

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Old 08/18/06, 9:32 AM   #10
Brissa
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Gnome Warrior
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
Nightfall has a very short procc duration so I dont think it falling of before its run out is a major problem.

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Old 08/18/06, 9:51 AM   #11
Kaubel
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Mal'Ganis
There's never much danger of FF getting pushed off during our raids. It's keyed to one of my mouse buttons and I compulsively hit it once every 20 seconds or so.

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Old 08/18/06, 4:52 PM   #12
Ashuko
Piston Honda
 
Murloc Druid
 
Windrunner
Originally Posted by Kaubel
There's never much danger of FF getting pushed off during our raids. It's keyed to one of my mouse buttons and I compulsively hit it once every 20 seconds or so.
Pardon my ignorance, but the value of FF is not immediately apparent. Would someone mind explaining?

http://ctprofiles.net/69539

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Old 08/18/06, 4:56 PM   #13
 Maestroquark
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Ramala
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Originally Posted by Ashuko
Originally Posted by Kaubel
There's never much danger of FF getting pushed off during our raids. It's keyed to one of my mouse buttons and I compulsively hit it once every 20 seconds or so.
Pardon my ignorance, but the value of FF is not immediately apparent. Would someone mind explaining?
Armor reduction = more DPS.

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Old 08/18/06, 4:57 PM   #14
Ashuko
Piston Honda
 
Murloc Druid
 
Windrunner
I guess I never really considered the armor reduction to be that significant. Actually, I thought it was pretty INsignificant, especially on bosses.

http://ctprofiles.net/69539

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Old 08/18/06, 4:58 PM   #15
Lumi
Don Flamenco
 
Blood Elf Hunter
 
Kil'Jaeden
It will add more dps than any DoT you could throw on.

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Old 08/18/06, 5:01 PM   #16
 frmorrison
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Ashstorm
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Originally Posted by Ashuko
Actually, I thought it was pretty INsignificant, especially on bosses.
Bosses have around 4000 armor, so sunder takes care of about half, so anything else that further removes armor is useful (like Curse of Reck and FF). With hunters, warrior, and Rogues around, those debuffs do more damage than any other debuff by virtue of those classes all hitting much harder than before.

Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'

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Old 08/18/06, 5:03 PM   #17
Ashuko
Piston Honda
 
Murloc Druid
 
Windrunner
From now on our druids are gonna keep it up. You learn something new every day. Always another opportunity to feel like a total noob.

http://ctprofiles.net/69539

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Old 08/18/06, 5:20 PM   #18
Nurru
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Nurru
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Originally Posted by Ashuko
I guess I never really considered the armor reduction to be that significant. Actually, I thought it was pretty INsignificant, especially on bosses.
Errrr

Decreasing boss armor is probably the most significant dps increase you have available to your raid.

edit: If you don't know about FF does this mean you don't use CoR either?

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Old 08/18/06, 5:56 PM   #19
Sancus
King Hippo
 
Undead Mage
 
Executus
Originally Posted by Brissa
Nightfall has a very short procc duration so I dont think it falling of before its run out is a major problem.
Yep, it's only 5 seconds long, and debuffs are pushed off in a queue. So if there's 10 non-protected debuffs up and 6 protected ones, Nightfall proccing will push off the oldest non-protected buff. For it to be pushed off, 9 *new* debuffs would need to be applied within its 5 second duration.

That isn't going to happen.

<Vontre> I removed the cooldown on evo
<sancus> and what happened?
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Old 08/18/06, 10:28 PM   #20
Kegsta
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Blackrock
keep the info comming guys, ill update the list accordingly, if you know and debuffs ive missed please post and ill add them. Aswell as any from the unknown list.

as for curse of wreck and FF, they make a massive differencve to hunter,rogue and warrior dps, keep them on almost every mob.

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Old 08/18/06, 10:33 PM   #21
 frmorrison
Protector
 
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Ashstorm
Human Paladin
 
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Curse of "Wreck" is not protected, at least I recall it getting knocked off once. Rogue debuffs, Rupture/Deadly Poison, are also not protected.

Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'

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Old 08/18/06, 10:37 PM   #22
Hangman
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Undead Warlock
 
Dentarg (EU)
I am pretty sure corruption is protected , have to test more to be sure.

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Old 08/18/06, 10:39 PM   #23
Kegsta
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Blackrock
We tested Curse of Recklessness on Golmag last night, 1 wreck application, everyone spamming debuffs for 2 minutes and we couldn't knock it off. At 2:00 it needed to be reapplied. Maybe they upped its priority recently along with winters chill and fire vun, some people have reported those being knocked off while others say they never will get knocked off.

edit:
if corruption is protected, and has the same priority as other protected debuffs it could easily explain the results we are seeing above. (we only had 2 locks in the raid)

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Old 08/18/06, 11:17 PM   #24
arch
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Undead Mage
 
Al'Akir (EU)
There were 2-3 blue posts explaining how it worked like one month ago, but I can't really remember all the details anymore. Here's what I do remember:

Priority works like this: 1) passive important debuffs like COS,COE,Sunder,Imp scorch/winters chill and so on. There's lots of debuffs that qualify for this but I guess some were left out/forgotten.
2) Controlled dots
3) procs/uncontrolled dots

Ignite is NOT high priority. It should be, but it's being treated like any other procced debuff - contantly getting bumped off.

In my eyes the fireball dot is working under the "controlled dots" part, allowing it to bump off ignite and such. It stays for long.

Guardian of Fire PvP since 2005!

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Old 08/18/06, 11:47 PM   #25
 Oggie
Disharmonious
 
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Dwarf Paladin
 
Lightbringer
Ignite is pretty low. Not sure, but I think it keeps on the uncontrolled list, without it refreshing every cast to the top of the pile.

Can anyone else confirm this?

I know it's irking a lot of mages.

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