First off, I wish I had noticed this thread earlier. Over the last 3 to 4 years, I have started drinking beer for enjoyment rather than just getting drunk (although it still happens a lot), and have started experimenting a lot more with beers.

I am also from SE Michigan. A few non-localish beers that I have found to be my favorites recently. Genisee Cream Ale from the Pittsburgh area and Boulevard Wheat from the KC area both superb.

As far as ales go. My favorite local is Bells Oberon. It's a little frutier than I normally drink, but on a hot summer day, it's a great choice. I am going to keep a lookout for teh Grizzly Peak Porter. I have not seen that one around. What part of SE Mich are you from? I currently reside Downriver. I will keep an eye out at my normal store (Discount Drinks in Wyndotte). If I can't find it. I may need some store help.

Guinness over Harp is more commonly called a Half and Half, compared to guinness and bass' black and tan. There are a few other drinks that they mix like this, most notable that I can recall being a Priest's Collar (guinness over a cider. Here it's usually Ace or Woodchuck, neither of which I'm very fond.)

edit: I suppose the priest's collar is a lot like the black velvet you lads have been discussing.

I spent my Saturday afternoon in 95 degree Missouri humidity, but with a nearby pool for cooling off and I needed some appropriate refreshments, so I picked up some summer brews. They included Leinenkugel's Summer Shandy, New Belgian's Skinny Dip and Hoegaarden.

I didn't realize that the Summer Shandy included lemonade in the bottle, but it does. And to my surprise, it was really, really good. It's not a beer I'd drink any time other than a hot summer day, but on a hot summer day, it went down really well. It's an excellent beer for standing around in the sun while you play lawn games.

The Skinny Dip is one of the worst beers I've had in a long time. It's very hoppy, but with lime in it. I can deal with hops. I even like hops. The Dogfish Head 90 minute IPA is a hoppy beer and I love it. I like limes. I can deal with a lime in a Corona since it makes Corona taste slightly better and it keeps me from getting scurvy (right?!?). The Skinny Dip is hoppy and it's no good. Without the lime it would have been a below average beer, but with the lime it was just plain bad. I have 5 bottles of this left and I'm seriously debating pouring them out so I can reuse the bottles for homebrew.

Hoegaarden is as good as this forum made it out to be. Saturday was the first time I've seen it in SW Missouri, so I wasn't able to try it before now. It's wheaty, spicy goodness. If you've had Blue Moon, it's similar, but with more flavor. I'd recommend someone that's accustomed to American light lagers try the Blue Moon first, but for everyone else you should try Hoegaarden. I suppose it must be the coriander, but it's a spicy beer. It's definitely something I'll buy again.

I saw someone recently order a "Black and Blue" which was (I think) Guiness and Blue Moon. Then, of course, there are the beer + liquor drinks like a Flaming Dr. Pepper.

I'm with kaubel. As i currently reside in central Wisconsin i am inundated with Leine's, new glarus, bell's blue moon and other wheat based fruity beers. Every brewery seems to come out with 2 heffeweizen derivatives a summer its all i can do to find a porter on tap anywhere.

The summer shandy is alright if you are drinking it for the very specific purpose of having lemonade beer. But for the love of god stay away from the sunset wheat it tastes most like rotting fruit loops.

I would say that there's no way Blue Moon can make Guinness taste like anything other than watered-down burnt charcoal.

Are you commenting on its taste or its style, because Guinness is pretty tame when it comes to dark beers. Compared to some double bocks and stouts out there, you'd think Guinness was nothing more than strong iced-tea. Still, I'll admit that it's typically not a pleasing taste to the average, American beer drinker.

You know this, and I know this, but the "average, American beer drinker" does not. Plenty of people think it's the end all be all of "strong" beers. I don't know if it's an image that Diageo wants to project or if it's just dumb American hype, but it gets me a little riled I guess to see that much misinformation spouted out at every bar I go to.

It certainly does, however, claim to be a stout, and I don't think it's a very good example of one. Saying it is is like saying "if you want a good lager, grab a Bud Light!" It's nothing more than a bulk produced watered down for the masses brew. Not that there's anything wrong with that - I'm not anti macrobrew at all, I just think that so many people hold it high because it was their first and only "dark" beer, and there are so many better examples they could be touting.

There are two basic outlooks on food and drink:

-1) I want comfortable and familiar things that I already know I like.
-2) I want new and unfamiliar tastes that I've never seen before.

Everyone is a mix of both, but I think a great deal of the folks posting in this thread have a lot more of #2 in them than #1. They see postings about Dogfish Head and get pissed off that it's not available locally. They read about a whole new beer style and immediately start wondering where they could find one.

A huge number of people out in the world, on the other hand, are #1. Bud Light and it's ilk is their beer. They see a posting about something like Dogfish Head and think "Hmm, I might not like that." (To the extent they even notice or think about it at all.) They attach to brands, not to styles. Many Bud Light drinkers don't enjoy Coors Lite simply because it is unfamiliar, not because of any substantial difference in taste.

Speaking of black and blue... http://dogfish.com/brewings/Limited_...e/58/index.htm is what I still have a bottle of in my fridge after a week of being spoiled with expensive beers. (and a case full of Magic Hat Hocus Pocus, my favorite summer beer)

My bar got in a few cases of the 120 and just wow.. wow.. go try this. Amazing color, smell, flavor. I could never let this beer age the 10 years they suggest.