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Old 08/18/06, 10:13 PM   #1
Sienna
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Ravencrest (EU)
I know this is a very old discussion and nobody seems to know what's exactly going on but I'm taking my chances.

I did try to test with a rogue friend of mine if crits can be dodged. He hit me 100 times with 19.56% crit rate and critted 19 many, then I activated monkey, did it again and this time he critted 22 many out of 100. So the dodges don't seem to effect his crits at all. I'm dodging most of his attacks but the crits are coming on the way. So from these 2 tests I'd guess that you can't dodge a crit. But can you parry it or can he miss one of his crits? How does it work?

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Old 08/18/06, 10:16 PM   #2
Lank
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warrior
 
Kilrogg
your sample size is WAY too small.

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Old 08/18/06, 10:22 PM   #3
 Nemesis
Global Warming lets me bike more.
 
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Nemmie
Blood Elf Paladin
 
No WoW Account (EU)
http://tpr-wow.wiki.xs4all.nl/index....hysical_combat

other than that, 100 swings is way to small a sample

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Old 08/18/06, 10:33 PM   #4
Sienna
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Ravencrest (EU)
Yes I know. I told my friend that we need at least a 1000 to figure this out. But it was a short test. Still although I was dodging many many many of his attacks, his crit rate was the same rate he has. But now I check the link and it seems everything is there. Thanks for the post.

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Old 08/18/06, 11:34 PM   #5
Umph
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Umph
Tauren Druid
 
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No, they cannot be dodged, parried, or miss; because then those hits wouldn't be crits, they'd be a dodge, parry, or miss.

There's a bit of empirical evidence available (I think some of the proofs have even been posted around here) that suggests wow's hit types are tabular, ie..: roll 1-1000, and depending upon where your roll lands you will either hit, crit, miss, be dodged, or be parried.

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Old 08/18/06, 11:49 PM   #6
arch
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Undead Mage
 
Al'Akir (EU)
Ruro is right, that's how it works or how it seems to work anyway. I believe it can be proven with the mage skill combustion. Get a level 40 mage, pick combustion, pop it and go shoot on a 10+ level target. Your combustion will keep stacking up ultimately granting you 100% chance to crit and you will notice that those 3 charges will never be consumed as long as your spells keeps resisting (missing in this case).
There you go, a spellmiss cannot be a crit cause then combustion would have consumed charges on "resisted crits".

Same goes for melee. It's a limitation in the combat system. Intended? Who knows. Gimped? Probably.

Guardian of Fire PvP since 2005!

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Old 08/19/06, 12:20 AM   #7
Saethir
Glass Joe
 
Murloc Druid
 
Silver Hand
http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Crit...miss_or_not.3F discusses this in detail, might want to check it out.

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Old 08/19/06, 1:13 AM   #8
GIJebus
Cauterize with Holy Fire
 
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Blood Elf Priest
 
Mal'Ganis
roll your d20 crit check

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Old 08/19/06, 2:00 AM   #9
chalon
Founder of the Chalonverse
 
Chalon
Night Elf Rogue
 
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There's more than just empirical evidence. It has been confirmed several times on the official boards that melee attacks have a single roll.

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Old 08/19/06, 4:53 AM   #10
Northerner
Great Tiger
 
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Troll Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
Which, of course, make for some very strange mechanics in the end. It is indeed how WoW's melee physical damage works though for now.

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Old 08/19/06, 5:30 AM   #11
sp00n
Bald Bull
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Wrathbringer (EU)
Of course crits can be dodged/parrier/missed, since dodge, parry and miss have a higher priority on the roll table than crit.
Yet first you have to kick off normal hits from the table before a crits get touched.

Go test it with a warrior who pops up recklessness and a rogue with evasion at the same time. Critrate should be ~100%, but the warrior will hardly land any swing on the rogue due to the huge dodge rate. If he lands though, it will be a crit for sure.

And btw. for magic attacks the hit table seems to be different. Here indeed a magical attack first has to be a hit, before it can be a crit (read that somewhere in the mage forums in a sticky thread).

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Old 08/19/06, 5:45 AM   #12
Ravnac
Glass Joe
 
Murloc Druid
 
Kel'Thuzad (EU)
Originally Posted by sp00n
Of course crits can be dodged/parrier/missed, since dodge, parry and miss have a higher priority on the roll table than crit.
Yet first you have to kick off normal hits from the table before a crits get touched.

Go test it with a warrior who pops up recklessness and a rogue with evasion at the same time. Critrate should be ~100%, but the warrior will hardly land any swing on the rogue due to the huge dodge rate. If he lands though, it will be a crit for sure.
The Game checks wether your strike is missed, parried, dodged or blocked according to the following table, then the crit "modifier" applies.

Originally Posted by WoWWiki.com
1) Miss (M)
1b) Parry (P)
1c) Dodge (D)
2) Block (
3) Glance (G)
4) Crit (C)
4a) Crush (U)
5) Hit (H)
The Crit has not been parried / dodged / blocked / been missed, the Hit has :>

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Old 08/19/06, 6:12 AM   #13
Drauk
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Drauk
Human Mage
 
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Originally Posted by sp00n
And btw. for magic attacks the hit table seems to be different. Here indeed a magical attack first has to be a hit, before it can be a crit (read that somewhere in the mage forums in a sticky thread).
Its not a blue sticky, and incorrent in that aspect. Magical attacks works in the same way with hit/crit/"miss" (full resist). For non-binary spells there is additional check for partial resist.

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Old 08/19/06, 6:39 AM   #14
Quebeen
Von Kaiser
 
Murloc Warrior
 
Tarren Mill (EU)
So basically if the enemy has 20% to crit and 80% to hit, but you have 80% avoidance; all his hits will be crits?

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Old 08/19/06, 6:46 AM   #15
Ravnac
Glass Joe
 
Murloc Druid
 
Kel'Thuzad (EU)
If you dodge 80 % of the attacks, the incoming hits will be calculated hits or crits.
If the enemy strike you 100 times and he lands 20 of them because of your avoidance, of the 20 there are 20 % crit and 80 % hits - you will take 4 crits.
(All "calculations" are theorectical :>)

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