Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Public Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08/22/06, 2:28 PM   #51
R4zza
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Shaman
 
Khadgar (EU)
Originally Posted by frmorrison
In TBC, the encounters seem to be designed for hybrids, so maybe a Shaman will be needed to tank (so need that Mail armor).
You can see into the future? wow.

Dont make totally unfounded comments just to make yourself seem more knowledgeable.

Edit: Nem beat me to it.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/22/06, 2:49 PM   #52
 frmorrison
Protector
 
frmorrison's Avatar
 
Ashstorm
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by R4zza
Originally Posted by frmorrison
In TBC, the encounters seem to be designed for hybrids, so maybe a Shaman will be needed to tank (so need that Mail armor).
You can see into the future? wow.

Dont make totally unfounded comments just to make yourself seem more knowledgeable.
I can certainly make educated guesses based on hints from Blue posters and the talent trees, which is in a way "seeing in the future."

The recently changed Shaman trees were made with TBC in mind, so if you look at the Enchancement tree, you can see that 10 Defense was changed to 5% to dodge (better for tanking), the Shield block talent was buffed a little, and 10% armor talent was lowered a few tiers (easier to pickup).

Also Pallys will have a taunt-like ability.

This leads me to believe that Hybrid classes will be expected to tank some of the new instances, so Mail armor will help that if a Shaman was called to tank.

I don't think that my belief is unfounded.

Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/22/06, 3:09 PM   #53
Kaubel
Sledgehammer Emeritus
 
Kaubel's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Nemesis
Originally Posted by frmorrison
In TBC, the encounters seem to be designed for hybrids, so maybe a Shaman will be needed to tank (so need that Mail armor).

Pally set armor (except Tier 3) is weak on +healing/Priests taking +damage is not nice, but those matters are for another thread.
where do you get this TBC encounter design info? i'm curious now
Until you can figure out how to use capitalization and punctuation, you don't need to be telling others how to post.

Originally Posted by Lyta View Post
I've been trying to concentrate on studying for my Proof Methods test tomorrow, and all I can think of is your hotness, radiating out from the pixels on my monitor, seared straight into my neurons.

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/22/06, 3:29 PM   #54
Malan
Mind the gap.
 
Malan's Avatar
 
Malan
Tauren Shaman
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by R4zza
Originally Posted by frmorrison
In TBC, the encounters seem to be designed for hybrids, so maybe a Shaman will be needed to tank (so need that Mail armor).
You can see into the future? wow.

Dont make totally unfounded comments just to make yourself seem more knowledgeable.

Edit: Nem beat me to it.
His comments were not unfounded at all. Did you not read any of the numerous interviews last week with the dev teams? It was clearly articulated that Hybrid classes will be much more involved in hybrid roles in instances once the Xpac hits shelves. Pallys will be off tanking and shamans will be primarily DPSing.

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/22/06, 7:58 PM   #55
 Nemesis
Locked to a sign, near the station.
 
Nemesis's Avatar
 
Nemmie
Blood Elf Paladin
 
No WoW Account (EU)
For those who missed it, I was actually serious, I -am- curious
I haven't been keeping up on TBC info at all lately so if they said anything about fights being designed towards hybrids I was wondering if he, or anyone else, could point me to a source so I could read up on it.
I don't discredit people for no reason when they bring up something I didn't know (yet).

Originally Posted by Kaubel
Until you can figure out how to use capitalization and punctuation, you don't need to be telling others how to post.
Being Belgian I'm happy to get the spelling right, capitalizing my 'I' is a major problem because we don't do anything similar in dutch.
Also I was not telling anyone how to post. That's your interpretation of my post.



Originally Posted by Zyla
If you can undo the bra with your teeth, it leaves your hands free for the keyboard.

Belgium Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/22/06, 9:12 PM   #56
Kaubel
Sledgehammer Emeritus
 
Kaubel's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Nemesis
Being Belgian I'm happy to get the spelling right, capitalizing my 'I' is a major problem because we don't do anything similar in dutch.
Also I was not telling anyone how to post. That's your interpretation of my post.
Please interpret this one for me then, because that's what I based my deduction on.

And it's not so much the spelling I was talking about. If English isn't a person's first language, I have no qualms with innocent mistakes. I know I couldn't speak Dutch or French or any other foreign language to save my ass. I just wondered what would possess you to randomly not capitalize the first word in a sentence, then leave out the period at the end, and then turn around and tell someone about our posting rules. I mean, if what you're doing is something common in the Belgium language, you have my apologies.

I realize this seems unimportant and nit-picky, and I believe you to be a nice guy; but if we want standards here, I have to treat each person and each post the same or we'll find ourselves overrun with people who aren't nice and can't communicate for crap. It's a dirty job, and there's a 95% chance I'm going to come across as being some intolerant asshole, but someone has to do it if we're to avoid becoming the next FoH board.

Anyway, I apologize for the derail.

Originally Posted by Lyta View Post
I've been trying to concentrate on studying for my Proof Methods test tomorrow, and all I can think of is your hotness, radiating out from the pixels on my monitor, seared straight into my neurons.

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/22/06, 9:50 PM   #57
 Nemesis
Locked to a sign, near the station.
 
Nemesis's Avatar
 
Nemmie
Blood Elf Paladin
 
No WoW Account (EU)
It's not random, I quickly typed a response like I would have on IRC, no capitalization or punctuation, using a linebreak to seperate both sentences.
As far as it being nit-picky, it is. There's a huge difference between someone posting a wall of text without any effort to make it more legible and 2 quick lines I typed when I passed my comp and spotted a blocked PVE crit. (Yes, I admit to having these forums open most of the time)
The reference to his profile was simply a lighthearted reference to your post earlier. You did notice the smiley at the end, right? I actually want the guy to be around long enough to post that screenshot! ;)
However, you did make your point and if only for the sake of standards I'll pay attention to it.

It is kinda ironic though, I mentioned his profile because I know how much it bothers people, you included.

All that aside, no I realize you are not an intolerant asshole and just do what you gotta do and I have no problem with that.


P.S.: You missed 'Belgian' language in there.



Originally Posted by Zyla
If you can undo the bra with your teeth, it leaves your hands free for the keyboard.

Belgium Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/22/06, 9:54 PM   #58
Kaubel
Sledgehammer Emeritus
 
Kaubel's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
It's because I'm fluent in Belgian.

Point taken as well though. I think we're both on the same page and like I said, I think you're a good guy and intelligent poster, and I'm happy to know our site is a place you like to visit.

Originally Posted by Lyta View Post
I've been trying to concentrate on studying for my Proof Methods test tomorrow, and all I can think of is your hotness, radiating out from the pixels on my monitor, seared straight into my neurons.

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/22/06, 10:55 PM   #59
know1
Von Kaiser
 
Murloc Shaman
 
Jubei'Thos
I did the numbers a while ago for cloth/leather and mail +dmg gear for shaman as I was wondering if we could push the heady heights of +dmg like warlocks and mages.

The outcome was that the itemization for mail +dmg gear was almost as good as cloth so it wasn't worth pinching +dmg gear from the 'intended classes'.

I should perhaps run the same itemization for +heal and +mana/5 gear it maybe a litle different, as I know a few cloth pieces that beat anything mail hands down.

One bugbear of mine that I always get comments on however is staves, and this notion that shaman MUST use a shield. I guess it's sort of relevant here as it is an armour choice.

Currently I'm running with a Staff of Dominance and the DM Quel'dorai Channeling Rod. Everyone is always on about how I should equip a shield as shamans are best with shield etc. etc.

This is where this diverges a little from the 'body' armour pieces because weapons are a different beast.

The reason I use the above, is that the SoD with +22 int is that it gives me ~973 mana, once I've cast a few heals I swap to the Channeling Rod which has a spirit enchant for the regen.
In my bag however I do have a Rhombeard's Protector, and an Aurastone Hammer. The reason I use the channeling rod is it has the best mana/5s of anything I can get/have gotten. The day I can pickup a malistar's I will, unless I see Jindo's staff, or the AQ40 Augur one before then (still wiping to Emps).
The decision to go with Malistar's however wont be based upon it's armour, but because it combined with the Aurastone has one of the best mana/5s in the game.

This is unique to weapons though and that's what my shield is for, if something gets loose or on say Anub'Rehkan where the impale is physical I will swap out to a shield, but most of the time my staff combination is better. But I can pick and choose on the fly though unlike body piece armour that you can't swap in whilst you're in combat.

Also side note, I love mana/5s because I play from Aust. regular 500+ms ping means a lot of the time my heals land for 100% overheal. Think about 500ms to me raid frame update showing tanks health going down, I cast, then see tank's health go up again and try to cancel you can't after 1 second of a 1.5 second heal as it'll go off before the cancel registers. Sometimes total round trip times means you have 0.5s or less to react. If I'm running ~20% total overheal that's a good number. So my logic is that rather than overheal for more I'd rather get back that wasted mana as quickly as possible. Hence preference for mana/5s over +heal. +Heal is my second favorite stat though :)

Anyway that probably makes no sense, but bottom line is mail itemization is almost as good as cloth/leather, except a few choice pieces, so leave the cloth to the intended classes unless it's going to be sharded.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/22/06, 11:20 PM   #60
vorda
Bald Bull
 
vorda's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Jaedenar (EU)
The shield or stave/offhand issue is quite interesting imo. I see way too many shamans in my guild who stick to their Malistar's or even ZG shield when they can use Lei of the Lifegiver (still one of the best healing offhands imo). I did roll on Malistar's, so I can put it on my weapon switch (finally a use for that 'v' key :) ).

Having extra armor helps nearly nothing in almost every bossfight. Just having your shield on a weapon switch macro and having some quick reflexes (in my case, a sound that goes off when a boss targets me) is more then enough.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/23/06, 12:52 AM   #61
Sebudai
Soda Popinski
 
Sebudai's Avatar
 
Sebudai
Orc Hunter
 
No WoW Account
Shields are inherently better than offhands because a shield is just an offhand with free AC. Shaman use Malistar's over Lei of the Lifegiver because it is infact better than Lei of the Lifegiver.

United States Online
Reply With Quote
Old 08/23/06, 1:01 AM   #62
Rumor
Von Kaiser
 
Rumor's Avatar
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Moon Guard
Im actually very interested in the question of whether or not its better to have a shield with high armor and decent stats or a shield with more desirable stats but less armor , ie whether its best to hang on to the Gizlock's Hypertech Buckler until you get a better shield with mp5 or plus heal .
Back on topic - as far as mail vs cloth/leather - Id say its best to not worry about cloth or leather , just go for mail items . If something drops and no one wants it , then entertain getting it . Otherwise it just leads to headaches . And the truth of the matter is those healing classes are more restricted when it comes to their armor choices as it is . They dont have the luxury of trying to get mail or even leather healing pieces ( in the priest's case ).
I know on my pally , i tend to wear plate , simply because it plays to the defensive nature of the class but i do have padres trousers stashed away in my inventory in case i need a bit more healing oomph .

Edited for pre sleep spelling errors and mistakes ><

Rumor stood on the snowy hilltop, gripped her broadsword and blatantly ignored the painful frost burns caused by her chainmail bikini. - RIP Rumor the night elf female huntress .
http://www.sloganizer.net/en/style7,Rumor.png

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/23/06, 1:42 AM   #63
Sebudai
Soda Popinski
 
Sebudai's Avatar
 
Sebudai
Orc Hunter
 
No WoW Account
In almost all cases the shield with the best AC will also have the best stats, because it will be a higher ilvl. The only exception will be shields in which Blizzard has devoted extra points from the item budget to up AC higher than it normally would.

United States Online
Reply With Quote
Old 08/23/06, 2:38 AM   #64
niaina
Glass Joe
 
niaina's Avatar
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Zul'Jin
Thank you all for pointing out the shaman aggro. That helps a lot in deciding how to gear up the draneai shaman.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/23/06, 4:36 AM   #65
Exewut
Soda Popinski
 
Exewut's Avatar
 
Orc Warrior
 
Al'Akir (EU)
I do not understand all the hate towards clothwearing shamans. I mean if you as a shaman want to go for pvp gear, you will often pick up some of that druid leather in aq40, if you want a high +healing to be able to downrank your heals you will have to take cloth and leather items. Apart from a set of pants from the outdoor dragons and helmet of the lifegiver I still have to see anny pieces with high +healing on them. If you aren't going for setbonuses then it would be a shame not to take deviate growth cap, or robes of the guardian saint. Priests get a really nice set to heal with, shamans, who are forced 100% in the healing role, don't have that luxury.
Is that extra 400 healing going to save the raid more because you are able to pump out alot more healing than the 7k armor? To me this should be a personal choice, since there is no way to be sure. I for one would go for the extra 400 healing.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/23/06, 10:18 AM   #66
murns
Piston Honda
 
Orc Warrior
 
Mal'Ganis
Since this thread has run it's course, I'm going to go ahead and derail it here.

What is everyone's opinion on the proper time to break 3-piece TS in a raid setting? I find for many encounters I'm using chain heal extensively, and I can't justify losing the 3-piece bonus for a little more +healing/MOT. But I am starting to see a bit more Tier 3 coming my way, just wondering if anyone had some thoughts on the matter.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/23/06, 10:30 AM   #67
berg
Don Flamenco
 
Undead Rogue
 
Tichondrius
Should probably wait and see how much the chain heal 'AI' has improved. If it does jump intelligently I think that bonus will have some use for a long time.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/23/06, 10:39 AM   #68
Humbaba
John Galt
 
Humbaba's Avatar
 
Humbalo
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account
I used chain heal extensively on a BWL full clear last night and it worked great. I would cast heals on myself and it would bounce to the people around me that were lowest on health, in or out of party. On the drakes I indiscriminately cast it on rogues and warriors and I noticed no more overheal than usual on out of party casts. It doesn't seem to be a huge improvement, bit just makes it more mindless. There used to be a requirement to pay attention so you wouldn't cast it on a party member if no other party members were nearby and low on health and now you can be indiscrimate.


United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/23/06, 10:56 AM   #69
 frmorrison
Protector
 
frmorrison's Avatar
 
Ashstorm
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Humbaba
There used to be a requirement to pay attention so you wouldn't cast it on a party member if no other party members were nearby and low on health and now you can be indiscrimate.
This is exacty my observation from using the CH as well. Making a skill more user-friendly is always nice.

Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/23/06, 3:01 PM   #70
oldmandennis
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Kel'Thuzad
Originally Posted by Humbaba
There used to be a requirement to pay attention so you wouldn't cast it on a party member if no other party members were nearby and low on health and now you can be indiscrimate.
They made it jump out of party a very long time ago.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/23/06, 3:04 PM   #71
♦ Praetorian
Mike Tyson
 
Praetorian's Avatar
 
Orc Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
No they didn't. As of 1.11, if you cast chain-heal in a raid on someone in your 5-man group within the raid, it would only jump to injured nearby targets within that same 5-man group.

Chain heal is incredible now.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/23/06, 3:07 PM   #72
berg
Don Flamenco
 
Undead Rogue
 
Tichondrius
I am happy about the change but now I must prepare myself to be bludgeoned with arguments over the unbreakability of the ts3 bonus instead of ef5.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/23/06, 3:09 PM   #73
 frmorrison
Protector
 
frmorrison's Avatar
 
Ashstorm
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Praetorian
Chain heal is incredible now.
Is it so good that you use 5 SC + 3 TS more often now (maybe you haven't had enough time to use it)?

Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/23/06, 3:14 PM   #74
♦ Praetorian
Mike Tyson
 
Praetorian's Avatar
 
Orc Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
There are situations in which it would make a lot of sense to do so, but I am mildly irrational when it comes to set piece selection and generally can't be bothered to mix and match gear other than resist gear for situational use. By way of illustration, I broke up 5-piece Earthfury for four pieces of Ten Storms and never looked back.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/23/06, 7:02 PM   #75
Shabadu
sssssssssshhhhhhiiiiiiiit ttttttt
 
Shabadu's Avatar
 
Orc Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Chain heal last night contributed to some of the fastest, cleanest Huhuran + trashs EVER. I can only wait to seet it in action on Thaddius and shudder in delight.

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Public Discussion

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Arcane Meditation and Mage Armour kelben The Dung Heap 5 12/16/08 11:53 PM
Profession choices for tanks. Whiteknight Public Discussion 8 02/18/07 3:06 PM
Power and efficiency of healing spell choices Kazanir Public Discussion 29 09/25/06 4:54 AM
Fury Warrior weapon choices holys Public Discussion 40 06/12/06 3:44 PM
Almost got the cloth crew.... Octo Public Discussion 14 08/04/05 8:05 AM