1.12 thunderclap nerf... why?

valner · 08/22/06, 8:58 AM

Apparently, thunderclap was nerfed slightly this patch in terms of its slow effect. What do you all think? I can't see wtf they were thinking. People use thunderclap for the slow not the damage. So nerfing the slow really lowers its utility. It really makes thunderfury even more valuable and 5 piece conq thunderclap less of a replacement for those nights when a thunderfury warrior does not show up. In many respects it makes it more of an issue for long established guilds to revist the shithole rrr MC for bindings.

• Mygore · 08/22/06, 9:12 AM

Are you sure it was actually nerfed, I know that in 1.12 they changed the way haste and slow effects work I believe and they also changed the tooltips of many abilities that cause haste or slow effects, they also changed the TF tooltip.

BeavisNuke · 08/22/06, 9:14 AM

I thought they said only the tooltip values were changing, not what the effects actually accomplished.

goobin · 08/22/06, 9:15 AM

From the final patch notes (downloaded this morning from the patcher):

Thunderclap: This ability was left at 10% despite the haste effect changes. This means its potency has been reduced slightly.

Anyone know what that means in terms of the actual change? Shouldn't it only be a few percent?

Kazanir · 08/22/06, 9:16 AM

Originally Posted by Mygore

Are you sure it was actually nerfed, I know that in 1.12 they changed the way haste and slow effects work I believe and they also changed the tooltips of many abilities that cause haste or slow effects, they also changed the TF tooltip.

What he said. Slow and haste effects were all changed in 1.12 to be multiplicative effects, whereas previously they were additive increases/decreases or something. I just woke up and don't have the patch notes in front of me so I can't explain the math, but the point is that all haste and slow appear to be changed, but their functionality has not.

Edit: Re: Goobin's post: Hm. Time to break out the math.

• frmorrison · 08/22/06, 9:18 AM

Even if TC was slightly nerfed, I don't think it makes much of a difference.

suicuique · 08/22/06, 9:22 AM

Originally Posted by goobin

From the final patch notes (downloaded this morning from the patcher):

Thunderclap: This ability was left at 10% despite the haste effect changes. This means its potency has been reduced slightly.

Anyone know what that means in terms of the actual change? Shouldn't it only be a few percent?

Before:

TC slowed the autoattack of the mobs to 90% of their initial rate.

Now:

TC slows the autoattack speed of the moby by 10%, meaning they attack at 1/1.1=90.9% of their initial rate.

Summary: You get hit for 90.9/90=1% more damage by the autoattacks now, than you did before.

Hope that is correct.

regards

Kazanir · 08/22/06, 9:25 AM

Edit: The person above me is better at early-morning math. What he said.

Anarkii · 08/22/06, 9:26 AM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

Even if TC was slightly nerfed, I don't think it makes much of a difference.

The effectiveness will be reduced by about 10%. For guilds without a Thunderfury, it is a significant change.
But we have a TF, so I'm not complaining personally ;)

• Snowy · 08/22/06, 9:26 AM

Well, the 2 relevant patch notes would be:

Haste and Slow effects
Previously Haste and Slow effects worked inconsistently, with spells working differently from weapons, and hastes and slows not acting as inverses of each other. We have revised the system so that all haste and slow effects work the same way, and haste and slow percentages of the same magnitude perfectly cancel each other out (30% haste and 30% slow combine to no change). As a result, we had to change the tooltip numbers on all spell haste effects, and on all melee and range slow effects. The numbers in the tooltips are different, but the game functionality is unchanged (other than slight rounding errors). Those tooltips that changed will now display larger numbers than they used to display. Conceptually, haste values indicate how much more of that activity you can perform in a given time. 30% melee haste means 30% more swings in a given time. Slow values indicate how much longer an activity takes to complete. 30% slow means an action takes 30% longer to finish.

and

Thunderclap: This ability was left at 10% despite the haste effect changes. This means its potency has been reduced slightly.

So a 10% slow means that a 1 sec attack now takes 1.1 sec, or 1 / 1.1 = 90.9% attack speed. So the nerf was going from 90% to 90.9%, or very negligible.

• frmorrison · 08/22/06, 9:35 AM

Originally Posted by Anarkii

Originally Posted by frmorrison

Even if TC was slightly nerfed, I don't think it makes much of a difference.

Thunderclap - post 1.12 - would have been 12.5% reduction in attack speed, if it had the same potency. Being 10% means reducing its effectiveness by a fifth (20% less effective).

Well, if you want to do math, TC would have had to been a 11.111% reduction to keep the same 10% autoattack speed reduction.

So now it is 90.9% instead of 90%, which is a 1% effectiveness nerf. Which again, I say that doesn't make much of a difference.

The 5 Conquerer's TC went from 85% to 86.9%, which is a more noticable 2% nerf.

suicuique · 08/22/06, 9:37 AM

BTW what does the TF slow tooltip state now?

If its still "20% slow", than we've got 1/1.2/0.8=4.17% damage increase on autoattacks on TF slowed mobs now (in comparison to the slow effect of TF before 1.12).
That in fact would be a buff to guilds without TF ^^
(read: TF is getting nerfed "more" than TC)

regards

Anarkii · 08/22/06, 9:38 AM

Yeah, I jumbled up the math - its from 90% to 90.9%.

Anarkii · 08/22/06, 9:40 AM

Originally Posted by suicuique

BTW what does the TF slow tooltip state now?

If its still "20% slow", than we've got 1/1.2/0.8=4.17% damage increase on autoattacks on TF slowed mobs now (in comparison to the slow effect of TF before 1.12).
That in fact would be a buff to guilds without TF ^^
(read: TF is getting nerfed "more" than TC)

regards

TF tooltip states 25% slower, now.