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Old 08/23/06, 9:39 AM   #1
Ishara
You are dead
 
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Human Paladin
 
Turalyon (EU)
Ive scoured the forums for an dicsussion on this but havent been lucky, I could of course be blind in which case feel free to slap me.

I currently use Thunderfury in Main hand and Edge of Chaos in offhand, both of them with crusader enchants on them and BWL/MC plate dps gear.

What im looking for is some number crunching of what would produce the better dps, main hand or offhand. This has in mind that EoC is a much slower weapon but how many procs would I actually lose from TF. Im also a noob at calculating these things, found a spreadsheet earlier but the host seems to have taken it offline.

Also I havent been able to maximise dual wield spec as im a hybrid fury/prot. So whack 15% off the offhand damage. Also this shouldent affect the proc like defensive stance does right?

Gear and spec is in sig (d'oh)
 
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Old 08/23/06, 9:47 AM   #2
Kelce
Tissue paper cannon
 
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@Gabekn
Human Mage
 
No WoW Account
If I recall correctly, specials (Hamstring, BT/MS, Revenge, whatnot) still activate the Thunderfury proc keeping it above pretty much all weapons until Gressil for DW damage. Deathwing's excel sheet could be of some use if you haven't been able to find some time to parse.

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Old 08/23/06, 10:07 AM   #3
Deathwing
Bald Bull
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Black Dragonflight
Gear is in your sig, btw, no need to link it.

Kelce is correct, all your yellow attacks can proc Thunderfury, so moving it to offhand significantly reduces its DPS. It still beats out Gressil, Kingsfall, and Claw of The Frost Wyrm, at the cost of significantly higher agro if you push it to the max. That said, it's still one of the best offhands for dps.
 
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Old 08/23/06, 1:43 PM   #4
 moz
Get off my lawn.
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Deathwing pretty much covered it.

Let me put it this way, even if you had Gressil to MH, you'd lose significant DPS off-handing TF.
 
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Old 08/23/06, 2:08 PM   #5
Ashuko
Piston Honda
 
Murloc Druid
 
Windrunner
Thread hijack: Moz are you a MT in EJ? I say "a" because I'm assuming due to guild size that you have multiple tanks that can/do perform the MT role.

http://ctprofiles.net/69539
 
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Old 08/23/06, 2:38 PM   #6
newladin
Don Flamenco
 
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Dwarf Paladin
 
<UF>
Mal'Ganis
I think it time to update your avatar Moz to dreadnaught.

PS What happened to the "Heal moz, HEAL MOZ... Seriously heal Moz!" title

all your base, are belong to us!
 
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Old 08/23/06, 2:58 PM   #7
 Karakas
/facepalm
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Dragonblight
Slight derail, but what do you think of Thunderfury in the offhand for rogues? What about Thunderfury as an offhand for dagger rogues? A friend of mine recently got Thunderfury as a rogue before the patch and now he really wants to offhand TF with a Perditions mainhand, I'm just trying to determine how much better TF would be in MH, considering you guys are saying that it beats out Gressil in the MH of a warrior.
 
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Old 08/23/06, 3:25 PM   #8
Emila
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Rogue
 
Khadgar
I would not MH a perd over a TF, I might mh a pugio over a tf, and would most likely mh a death sting. The whole problem I am finding with TF is not what hand to hold it in, but what weapon are you going to use when you cant use tf which seems to be getting larger and larger.
 
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Old 08/23/06, 3:32 PM   #9
Ravock
Glass Joe
 
Murloc Warrior
 
Stormrage
I think while taking a highly geared warrior with best of the best gear that the TF will reign supreme in the main hand over any other weapon. But... once you start comparing while having all of your normal raid buffs and then some, that the 65+ DPS weapons will start to edge out Thunderfury. Thunderfury has about 57 DPS that scales with your gear / buffs. Then it has 25-30 DPS that is static and does not increase *unless its a special boss fight like Thaddius*.

I haven't done the math to verify it, so maybe buff levels just aren't high enough yet to make up for the difference in the proc, but it has to be getting close.
 
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Old 08/23/06, 3:55 PM   #10
 moz
Get off my lawn.
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Ashuko
Thread hijack: Moz are you a MT in EJ? I say "a" because I'm assuming due to guild size that you have multiple tanks that can/do perform the MT role.
Yeah, and we have a good 4-5 warriors who have the gear to do the job on a given night depending on schedules/burn-out etc. In general, our warriors are very good -- something that can generally be counted on come raid-time.

Ravock: It's getting there, but it's still a reasonable margin with the very best gear and buffs. I haven't done the math for rogues, but I don't see a warrior swapping this out to off-hand anytime soon.
 
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Old 08/23/06, 8:10 PM   #11
Quebeen
Von Kaiser
 
Murloc Warrior
 
Tarren Mill (EU)
DPSing with TF = mass aggro, off-handing it reduces that aggro considerably, but yea dmg decrease it quite a hit. Just offhand it if yer MTs are slacking or w/e ;]
 
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Old 08/24/06, 2:09 AM   #12
Ishara
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Human Paladin
 
Turalyon (EU)
Nah aggro really isnt an issue :) I have every confidence in our MTs, thanks for the replys people, looks like ill be keeping it MH after all.
 
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Old 08/24/06, 3:05 AM   #13
Emeraude
Bald Bull
 
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Night Elf Warrior
 
Sargeras
Our Thunderfury Rogue switched his GM Sword & TF around in each hand since 1.12 came out. Significant DPS increase for him, he's come back #1 on the DPS charts.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=CX81UJZ8
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Old 08/24/06, 4:15 AM   #14
Ishara
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Human Paladin
 
Turalyon (EU)
Its slightly less of an increase for warriors, since Bloodthirst and Execute dont rely on the dps of the main hand.
 
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Old 08/24/06, 5:11 AM   #15
Emth
Piston Honda
 
Undead Mage
 
The Venture Co (EU)
And warriors tend to use more instants (virtually every global cooldown)

http://ctprofiles.net/404078
 
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Old 08/24/06, 8:27 PM   #16
Chamelean
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Uther
Originally Posted by Emth
And warriors tend to use more instants (virtually every global cooldown)
More instants than who? All rogue specials are instant, and a sword rogue generall does nothing but spam SS. Slow main hand weapons are far better for Rogues than fast. Thunderfury can be an exception though because the proc is so good.
 
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Old 08/24/06, 8:52 PM   #17
iPodschun
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Vashj
Most Warriors are hitting Hamstring between their other attacks. Rogues are hitting their instants every 4 or 6 seconds.
 
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Old 08/25/06, 1:43 AM   #18
The Mercenary
Glass Joe
 
Murloc Warrior
 
Agamaggan (EU)
Originally Posted by Quebeen
DPSing with TF = mass aggro, off-handing it reduces that aggro considerably, but yea dmg decrease it quite a hit. Just offhand it if yer MTs are slacking or w/e ;]
If you aren't Alliance, or if your MT's "just suck" you do more damage with the TF in the OH than you do with it in the MH. In the MH when you actually use it to it's full potential, you will get aggro on the majority of fights, which either a) kills you or b) forces you to stand around doing absolutely nothing for a while. I don't think anyone is debating what weapon does the most damage, the debate should be, what weapon combination allows you the most damage. There are a few fights where MH the TF and going all out is fine (and recommended) but on most...no.
 
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Old 08/28/06, 5:14 PM   #19
MatsT
Don Flamenco
 
Orc Shaman
 
Outland (EU)
I'd just like to add that another reason why it will proc so much for warriors is that it can proc twice for heroic strikes, once for the autoattack and once for the heroic strike part.
 
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Old 08/28/06, 5:18 PM   #20
Tokotangic
Glass Joe
 
Murloc Mage
 
The Forgotten Coast
Originally Posted by MatsT
I'd just like to add that another reason why it will proc so much for warriors is that it can proc twice for heroic strikes, once for the autoattack and once for the heroic strike part.
I've never heard of this before. Does that mean crusader has a double chance to proc as well?
 
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Old 08/28/06, 5:34 PM   #21
 Kaubel
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Dextor
Tauren Druid
 
<Elitist Jerks>
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Old 08/28/06, 5:46 PM   #22
Darke
Piston Honda
 
Troll Warrior
 
Blackhand
Originally Posted by MatsT
I'd just like to add that another reason why it will proc so much for warriors is that it can proc twice for heroic strikes, once for the autoattack and once for the heroic strike part.
I thought they fixed that. In fact, I'm 99% sure they did.
 
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Old 08/31/06, 10:45 AM   #23
MatsT
Don Flamenco
 
Orc Shaman
 
Outland (EU)
My bad. I am pretty sure i've seen it happen since after they fixed the "double sword proc on heroic" thingie, but i did ~200 heroics in a duel to test it and not a single double proc. Either they fixed in in some later patch, or it was just lag that made it seem i double procced before.
 
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Old 09/12/06, 1:07 PM   #24
Sylencer
Glass Joe
 
Murloc Warrior
 
Nordrassil (EU)
Want to re-open this Subject if possible as could do with some more discussion because im still not sure on the matter of what to do with my TF

Lets say warrior has very good generic dps gear, fury dual wield.

Hatchet of Sundered Bone < Main hand
Thunderfury < Offhand

Is this going to be a very good combination or should i be aiming for a decent offhand sword to go with TF?
 
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Old 09/12/06, 1:38 PM   #25
hubar
Banned
 
Murloc Warrior
 
Frostwolf
Originally Posted by Sylencer
Want to re-open this Subject if possible as could do with some more discussion because im still not sure on the matter of what to do with my TF

Lets say warrior has very good generic dps gear, fury dual wield.

Hatchet of Sundered Bone < Main hand
Thunderfury < Offhand

Is this going to be a very good combination or should i be aiming for a decent offhand sword to go with TF?
What race is the warrior?
 
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