Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Public Discussion » Public Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08/23/06, 1:29 PM   #1
Mish
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Lightning's Blade
So I want to min/max my PvP and PvE gear. I took Shadowpanther.net webpage and imported it into a spreadsheet. In addition to the unmodified version, I have a "DPS" version and a "PvP" version.

In my DPS version, I take stamina and resist out of the equation.

In my PvP version, I want to add weighting to Stamina and Dodge while removing weighting for +hit. This is where I'm at.

The standard AEP values are 1 Agil = 1 Stam. I would like to give Stamina a higher value for PvP, but I'm torn about how much I should go. 1.5? 2?

I would like some comments about what each of you feel the weighting should be and why?

The same question stands for items that have +Dodge %. The current value is 1 AGI = .33% Dodge.


The full equivalencies are here for those unfamiliar with this system (unlikely):

Formula: 1 Agility = 1 Stamina = 2 Strength = .1% Crit. = 5 Defense = .33% Dodge = .2% Parry = .13% To Hit = 2 Attack Power = 4 Any Resistance = 5 Health/5 Sec. = 50 Armor

Mishana, 80 UD Rogue, Lightning's Blade (US)

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/23/06, 1:32 PM   #2
exog
Piston Honda
 
Undead Warlock
 
Dunemaul (EU)
why remove +hit in pvp?
it still removes white misses in pvp too afaik.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/23/06, 1:38 PM   #3
chalon
Founder of the Chalonverse
 
Chalon
Night Elf Rogue
 
No WoW Account
The issue with any equivalence system is that equivalence from a DPS point of view is a sliding scale. Even a matter of buffs or not can have a huge difference. For instance, with my current gear from a DPS point-of-view, 1 crit = about 17 AP unbuffed, but with standard raid buffs 1 crit = 22.35 AP.

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/23/06, 2:32 PM   #4
Vhal
Piston Honda
 
Vhal's Avatar
 
Tauren Paladin
 
Tichondrius
At some point, I'm going to be motivated enough to set up a page that calculates everything in relation to AP instead of Agi, which I (at least) find to be so much easier to handle conceptually -- Agi gives two benefits, thus scaling twice, and AP is directly convertable to raw weapon DPS.

But anyway, for PvP values...

I've done the rogue and the mage thing in PvP on a competitive server. I like stamina. I find it's less important on the rogue than the mage, though. I'm still reprioritizing everything post-1.12, but I tend to value stamina at 1-1.5 agi.

Hit is more important than any other stat up to +5. Of course, +5 is not terribly hard to get, and with 1.12 Precision becomes viable in more PvP builds (I'm currently running 16/12/23 daggers, taking 2 points in Precision to pick up Imp. Sprint in Combat). Past +5, its value drops tremendously -- it's only a white damage booster, and PvP is significantly biased towards yellow damage.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/23/06, 3:59 PM   #5
Maverikki
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Vashj (EU)
I found a page from my bookmarks that lets you play around with the weights of different stats. Seems it lacks some equipment from AQ and onward. Maybe someone interested enough could send a message to the author and update it.

http://ccgi.brogett.plus.com/cgi-bin/AEP.pl

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/23/06, 5:07 PM   #6
probiscus
Bald Bull
 
Human Death Knight
 
<QQ>
Kilrogg
Everytime someone brings up AEP, I choke a kitten.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/23/06, 8:01 PM   #7
issei
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warrior
 
Kalecgos
AEP is at first a nice general tool/guideline and then a crutch and then a handicap

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/23/06, 8:05 PM   #8
Karakas
/facepalm
 
Karakas's Avatar
 
Inaya
Blood Elf Paladin
 
No WoW Account
AEP is evil. It tries to assign static values to each stat, because we all know +crit/+hit don't scale up the more damage you do per hit :rolleyes:

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/23/06, 9:34 PM   #9
Vhal
Piston Honda
 
Vhal's Avatar
 
Tauren Paladin
 
Tichondrius
Erm, Karakas, figuring it out dynamically is kinda the point of Brogetta's calculator, linked above.

It seems to me that the two most important questions with regard to evaluating rogue gear are "How does attack power relate to crit (or hit) chance in terms of expected damage output?" and "How much expected damage output loss is justifiable to gain a certain amount of stamina?". There are, of course, many additional subtleties to it, but the actual value of the majority of pieces of gear can be determined if one has at least reasonable answers to the above questions.

Now, that said, I've never cared for quantifying the value of gear in terms of agility itself (due to it boosting both crit and AP), but find that coming up with a good relative value of AP to the other stats (crit and hit objectively, stam subjectively) is quite helpful.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/23/06, 9:35 PM   #10
Dakous
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Drenden
My 50,000 AP totally saved my life this one time Vek turned and did that one off melee beat.

Everybody is your brother until the rent comes due.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/24/06, 4:26 AM   #11
Kalman
Super Macho Man
 
Kalman's Avatar
 
<>
Orc Shaman
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Vhal
Erm, Karakas, figuring it out dynamically is kinda the point of Brogetta's calculator, linked above.
Too bad Brogetta's has *never* done a very good job of it.

Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/24/06, 4:31 AM   #12
sp00n
Bald Bull
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Wrathbringer (EU)
See my sig, something like Brogetta's, yet I enter the items once a month or so when something new comes up.
Still missing some sort of DPS calc though to dynamically adapt the AEP values.

Hm, sig isn't showing, here's the link: http://sp00n.pytalhost.com/wow/

Stopped Playing

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/24/06, 4:35 AM   #13
Boevis
Bald Bull
 
Boevis's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Lightbringer
Originally Posted by Dakous
My 50,000 AP totally saved my life this one time Vek turned and did that one off melee beat.
My 50,000 HP totally killed Razuvious this one time healers went OOM and couldn't keep the adds up.

see what I did there?

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/24/06, 8:47 AM   #14
Mish
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Lightning's Blade
Originally Posted by issei
AEP is at first a nice general tool/guideline and then a crutch and then a handicap
What do you suggest as an alternative?

Mishana, 80 UD Rogue, Lightning's Blade (US)

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08/24/06, 8:55 AM   #15
sp00n
Bald Bull
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Wrathbringer (EU)
Originally Posted by Mish
Originally Posted by issei
AEP is at first a nice general tool/guideline and then a crutch and then a handicap
What do you suggest as an alternative?
The DPS spreadsheet.

Stopped Playing

Offline
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Public Discussion » Public Discussion

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Maxing Hydross DPS Ghando Public Discussion 222 08/10/07 2:29 PM
Min/maxing your raid setup. Pine Public Discussion 69 06/11/07 2:56 AM
Itemization Values rbrogan Class Mechanics 0 05/18/07 9:59 AM
Question about values of certain stats over others. Lyd Public Discussion 1 07/12/06 7:21 PM
Armor Values Torael_7 Public Discussion 36 01/24/06 9:47 AM