Rogue AEP values and min/maxing - Page 2

Mish · 08/24/06, 9:07 AM

I use that for doing DPS. I value stamina pretty highly for PvP though and the DPS sheet doesn't cover surviveability.

Avair · 08/24/06, 9:46 AM

AEP is a very easy to understand rule of thumb. It works quite well enough for what it is, an inexact formula. Yes, a DPS spreadsheet will give you better results, but AEP has the virtue of not requiring a computer to calculate.

For Raiding/PvE though, don't weight stamina too heavily. AEP was a PvP formula primarily.

• Maestroquark · 08/24/06, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by Boevis

My 50,000 HP totally killed Razuvious this one time healers went OOM and couldn't keep the adds up.

see what I did there?

Proved the point? That equivalence measures are bad because everything taken in extremes leaves you extremely weak?

Faytte · 08/24/06, 11:01 AM

More or less the superfluese damage in Naxx is either

A- easily survivable
B- will instantly kill you

As a result for the raider stamina, as a whole, isnt very important anymore. You'll notice the upgrade in stamina from t2 to t3 is fairly underwhelming (although the dps increase is very nice!).

Thats why as a raider i stick to the spreadsheets.

As far as Vek. Any rogue that far in the game should have

A- Enough HP to survive the uppercuts
B- The common sense to bandage before running back into melee. You can pop evasion or a healthstone if your that impatient.

Dakous · 08/24/06, 1:52 PM

Originally Posted by Faytte

As far as Vek. Any rogue that far in the game should have

A- Enough HP to survive the uppercuts
B- The common sense to bandage before running back into melee. You can pop evasion or a healthstone if your that impatient.

The point was that if you could find low sta high impact epics that you WOULDN'T have enough HP to survive the uppercuts, so true equivelence doesn't exist. Boevis came up with an alternate example, too.

You said raider stamina isn't that important, but how much does uppercut do as opposed to how much HP does a raid geared rogue have? Forgetting, for a moment, BoK since 1/4th of the people playing WoW these days don't have that luxury.

And on your whole point about "things in Naxx oneshot"... how many things in MC oneshot back when that was the top instance and noone had epics from it? How many things in BWL oneshot? AQ40? But post gearing.. oh boy, you survive.

I'm sure there's no opportunity cost for dying every pull.

issei · 08/24/06, 2:56 PM

beyond spreadsheets and acronyms, you could possibly, maybe, develop a personal value metric?

Staarkhand · 08/24/06, 3:24 PM

Plugging stuff into a spreadsheet and assuming you'll see that .03% increase in every situation is the new AEP.

(I love the spreadsheet, but any tool can be misused)

Calantus · 08/24/06, 7:26 PM

You could of course use the spreadsheet to find relative values of the DPS stats in your current gearlevel and then figure the relative value of the survivability stats to you and make new AEP values from that. Nothing says the standard AEP values have to be set in stone, and if you modify it to your gear level and taste there's nothing wrong with the system (besides basing it on agi instead of AP or DPS).

Vhal · 08/25/06, 1:19 AM

beyond spreadsheets and acronyms, you could possibly, maybe, develop a personal value metric?

That's... the whole point.

issei · 08/25/06, 3:49 AM

Originally Posted by Vhal

beyond spreadsheets and acronyms, you could possibly, maybe, develop a personal value metric?

That's... the whole point.

my point is that AEP isn't necessarily the proper baseline, nor can a static equivalency system ever really suffice. the effect of various statistics on dps, or in pvp, overall character efficacy, is never completely static, especially when you factor in personal preference.

Originally Posted by Calantus

You could of course use the spreadsheet to find relative values of the DPS stats in your current gearlevel and then figure the relative value of the survivability stats to you and make new AEP values from that. Nothing says the standard AEP values have to be set in stone, and if you modify it to your gear level and taste there's nothing wrong with the system (besides basing it on agi instead of AP or DPS).

if you really want to use AEP as the foundation for whatever reason, the above sounds like the way to do it.