What part of Fear has nothing to do with it don't you get?

There are two situations:
Warlocks are overpowered at the cost of Shards, and are forced to farm them. (To get the extra edge)
Warlocks are balanced at the cost of Shards, and are forced to farm them. (To even compete)

Neither option is fair, unless Shaman suddenly require Temporary Totems (Must make them with [Rock] and [Stick] which drop off elementals), or Warriors take a durability hit to their pants for running really fast during Charge/Intercept. This is stictly speaking for Arenas though, it's less prevailant in BGs because you can be weak for maybe 1 or 2 fights but come out with 10 shards to burn for the next 8. In PvE, you pay less money than any other class to fill your role, at the cost of farming Shards.

Or we could have

Warlocks are balanced at the cost of Soul Shards, and get a few free ones per Arena fight.

I think that's what a rational person would request, but that's just my opinion!

I don't have a problem with warlocks that take the time to prepare having everything at their disposal and/or the team benefiting from this.


You would take a nerf for convience. Any real pvper wouldn't. That's not rational to them.

just make it so every lvl 1 warlock gets a 8 soul shard bag.. can buy new ones ofc.
every kill you make drops a soul shard even without shadowburn / soul drain... and can only go in the soul shard bag.
would be easier to balance as it would be 1 shard per target. you'd have to kill without using shadowburn/soulfire to earn a shard for healthstone/soulstone/minion. but the mana cost/cooldown of shadowburn/soulfire is enough imo without soul shard requirement. heh pyroblast got cooldown removed why can't soulfire have soul shard removed :-o.

someone said about the lvl 55 neutral bugs in aq being good for soul shards between boss tries. well apparently it was game breaking for warlocks to be able to obtain shards of non-trash while in aq40, so they changed the bugs to not give shards in 1.12 -.-'.

I didn't actually put any conscious arithmetical or analytical thought in to the figure which was presumed in my head, so you may congratulate me on my math in the same way I can congratulate you on being an inferior human being for letting your amygdala have more control over your conscious thought and actions than your frontal lobes, but seems as you didn't think about the latter in the same way I thought about the former, I think that would be highly pointless. But if you do wish to have a lesson on how your cerebral cortex works, which will hopefully effect the way in which you let certain parts of your cerebral cortex control you, I will be obliged to help, or I can quite simply regard you as an inferior human being :)

Now that we have that out of the way, lets resume the debate which is going on :)

Fear is only the most powerful aspect of PVP at the moment (for you) because you for some reason or other you (most likely what I picked up on in the first paragraph of my reply) don't carry around a priest / paladin / warlock around with you in PVP to assist you with your job in PVP, or they are quite simply fucking retards which you should not be associated with in the first place.

As for your not being able to do anything about priest fear, let's take this back into context first of all okay? We're talking about Warlocks, and how you feel that the price they pay for being superior to your class and every other class is for having a fear which in PVP can be dispelled by any moron who uses Decursive or knows what Dispell / Cleanse / Devour Magic / Tremor totem does.

There is also the fact that you PVP within a faction which by racials are for the most part inferior for PVP'ing with, and your class being the only reason why they are able to keep up in an equally skilled encounter.

As for why I am fearing warriors in PVP, it is to buy time or to temporarily remove them from the battle in order for my team / guy who is being beaten on, to adjust to the situation and act accordingly, now judging from the fact that you apparently don't know this, is probably also correlated to the fact that you think fear is the most powerful thing in PVP.

Please not that PVP in Blizzard's own terms is that in a group, as Blizzard have stated that do not balance the game around 1v1 situations, where Fear is indeed the most powerful thing in PVP against anything but a warrior / undead / paladin / warlock with Felhunter due to the fact that they lack the support to dispell it themselves.

There is no reason that you can give that says that we need Soul Shards to balance our class out, when they are involved in things that do not concern fear, and things which do not effect fear in anyway (apart from obvious killing while in fear, but that could be done without the fear de-buff.)

Priests and Warriors “Fear Bomb,� not Warlocks. The Warlock AoE Fear takes 2 seconds to cast.. And even if we did have the capacity to do this against a marginally intelligent team, you can cast both our versions of Fear with zero Soul Shards anyway. So again, I don't understand your argument. And I don't understand why we're still talking about Fear.

The thing is you have picked option 1 henaki's list, but it's actually option 2. Soul Shards give access to such luxuries as a pet, the only instant damage spell off a 2 minute cooldown and the Warlock equivalent of Pyroblast. This is not an edge, they are PvP fundamentals, stuff you cannot PvP without. The only edge you gain from Soul Shards is a Healthstones at the start of the match and more liberal use of said instant-cast (though unless it crits it's worse than Fireblast).

Maybe a real PvPer wants to kill people instead of asking his team to wait while he -- and only he -- flies to the expansions equivalent of Felwood to kill mobs for ten minutes to be fighting fit.

If the arenas don't feature a way to reset cooldowns and stock up on soul shards (after every battle) they'll be poorly implemented overall. Ten to fifteen minute cooldowns will be used almost every fight. I simply can't see a fight between evenly matched teams where a shaman doesn't pop Blood Lust or a mage doesn't use Cold Snap. As it is, without a cooldown reset, each PvP fight will be treated as a boss fight in terms of waiting for the pull. Currently PvPers hate the PUG stomps in WSG or AB where they spend 5-10 minutes beating up on opponents who would rather be AFKing. I'd be very dissapointed if the brand new system that fixes the problems of PvP forces the waiting period into the very fabric of the arenas.

Wouldnt a soulstone/healthstone be considered a consumeable and be disallowed?

I am hoping that they disalow the use of shards altogether unless they have a class ranked system otherwise it will hardly be fair.

Deathcoil soulburn blah blah blah .. cry more warlocks

The nature of the competitive ladder is going to force a waiting period. People who want to win are going to be fully preped for a match. And since you will probably need more like 10 match/week, rather than 10 matches a night (like now) to make your rep, there won't be an advantage to playing a ton of matches.

Conjured items are completely kosher. Arena battles are even prefaced by preperation time, wherein conjured items and buffs can be tended to.

Warlocks are the best crowd control class, and nobody likes that. We're not overpowered. A warrior (hard to kill for everyone) in place of a warlock will always be the better choice for Arenas.

Exactly.
If Arenas are different from the rest of the zones, with the 15 minute cooldown ability cap, then the reagents required to use spells in Arenas should be refunded.

Personally if I don't go in and come out of an Arena with an equal amount of soul shards, I probably won't be PvPing as much as I would otherwise. But if I roll another class, I'd PvP as much as I want.
How is that fair?

Oh yeah, deathcoil...

I assume that the arena teams will queue up in other battlegrounds to keep there honor points climbing higher (as areana points and honor points will be seperate) during the time they wait between cooldowns for arena matches. It may not be perfect but it's better than running in circles around the org bank.


Post Thought: This may be a good way to restock you're teams warlocks as well. Queue up in a BG match and purposefully ignore objectives while helping your warlock farm individual members on the other team.

Only one thing controls me although it's not in my skull and that part of me certainly isn't inferior. I'm always up for bettering myself so I'll take you up on your offer, aim is ClearrainVZ.

Normally we have a three two split on dps/healer in a well rounded pvp group. Priest/Paladin is how we normally go (weither it be O or D.) There is the ability to dispell fear, yes, but it's not as easy as it seems when people get displaced and it doesn't get priority on cleanse. When your healing partner is feared you also have to be worrying about the lifebars of your dps and the healers lifebar. In major dmg pvp breaking down the buffs and finally getting to the fear will often cause a death. Displacing healers while high dmg is getting thrown around is very effective. It's like when healers are getting sheeped, it's not so much being sheeped sucks it's the time it takes to get someone out of it, it's the time spent not casting a heal, fear is much worse.

This hasn't been my argument. Balance is pretty unachievable in mmorpg pvp. My argument is people are complaining they have to do a little extra to get to a point they will be able to pvp, yet when they do that little extra they're sitting pretty.


You know there are classes in the game that don't kill people. PvP in bgs is not about dropping bodies.

No, I don't think you deserve to. I think you get to. When you do you are sweet. If I could do a little something to be sweet I would.

Deathcoil is worse than fireblast?

Hunters spend the least gold by far. Somewhere around 10% of what I pay, as a warlock, which itself is less than half of warriors.

Deathcoil doesn't (believe it or not) cost a shard Vaged. He was talking about Shadowburn.

I think that quote could do with a little more context. My point was clearly that people who want to PvP, want to PvP, not farm reagents by themselves because of some restrictive class mechanic.

But here's what you don't understand/appreciate. Warlocks don't do this to get an advantage, they do it to be viable. While there is an advantage to be had popping a Soulwell at the start of the match, a Warlock without Soul Shards needn’t have bothered turning up. None of the abilities of a Warlock you have actually mentioned (Fear, supposed Howl of Terror Fear Bombs and Death Coil) cost Soul Shards. Things like pets cost Soul Shards; Have fun doing PvP with an Imp out in anything short an arranged team farming a PUG.

Deathcoil doesn't cost a Soul Shard, cannot land critically, can never be used "liberally" and has a 2 minute cooldown. I was refering to Shadowburn.

I always thought deathcoil used a shard. Wasn't sure though so I ?'d it.



edit: It's the game within a game approach blizzard made pvp into. Gotta play the game to play the game. Wouldn't be that way if they didn't fuck it up in the first place. They're still making half-assed attempts to get world pvp right. For all we know you'll be queuing for arenas in an area where you can get soulshards.