hateful strike - Page 2

Whiteknight · 08/27/06, 3:53 AM

This may be a crazy idea, but have you considered changing the maximum hp of your HS tanks during the fight?

For example, suppose you have tanks A, B, C - in order of decreasing hp. A will get hit most, C least - making C the most likely to drop off the list.
If you start the fight without, say an imp buff for A, or missing a 120hp pot or some small hp buff which changes the order so it's B, C, A - you can arrange for B to get hit a lot early in the fight. Then swap A into the group with the imp and the order should change. This would require some fancy footwork from the healers I bet.

This gives C a headstart and maybe makes him less likely to drop off the list.

(caveat, I haven't personally seen this fight other than a trivial 10man pull because we wanted to hear his voice, so this idea may be completely off-base)

Kalman · 08/27/06, 3:56 AM

Originally Posted by DeeNogger

isnt that just like a +15% attack speed for a few seconds? is it really worth it? although, patchwerk is supposed to be a dps crazy fight, so i guess it is. hmmm, never would have thought about that

20% attack speed for 10 seconds at <40% health, IIRC. 20% attack speed for 10 seconds is well, well worth it, especially since Patch has *zero* splash damage and there's an easy way to drop yourself to <40%.

♦ Praetorian · 08/27/06, 4:03 AM

Originally Posted by Whiteknight

This may be a crazy idea, but have you considered changing the maximum hp of your HS tanks during the fight?

For example, suppose you have tanks A, B, C - in order of decreasing hp. A will get hit most, C least - making C the most likely to drop off the list.
If you start the fight without, say an imp buff for A, or missing a 120hp pot or some small hp buff which changes the order so it's B, C, A - you can arrange for B to get hit a lot early in the fight. Then swap A into the group with the imp and the order should change. This would require some fancy footwork from the healers I bet.

This gives C a headstart and maybe makes him less likely to drop off the list.

(caveat, I haven't personally seen this fight other than a trivial 10man pull because we wanted to hear his voice, so this idea may be completely off-base)

This might make sense if everyone has the same gear, though as you noted, it'd require some quick adaptation from healers, which can be bad. The problem is that you often don't have three tanks with identical gear. If you do, great. But you don't want to be rearranging things so that your 4/9 Dreadnaught tank clicks off a buff to drop himself below your 8/8 Wrath tank who now takes the bulk of the HS's.

In my view, if you have the DPS with room to spare, just have your fury warriors wait a while before engaging. Everyone else can go in almost immediately.

DeeNogger · 08/27/06, 4:10 AM

Originally Posted by Praetorian

Originally Posted by Whiteknight

This may be a crazy idea, but have you considered changing the maximum hp of your HS tanks during the fight?

For example, suppose you have tanks A, B, C - in order of decreasing hp. A will get hit most, C least - making C the most likely to drop off the list.
If you start the fight without, say an imp buff for A, or missing a 120hp pot or some small hp buff which changes the order so it's B, C, A - you can arrange for B to get hit a lot early in the fight. Then swap A into the group with the imp and the order should change. This would require some fancy footwork from the healers I bet.

This gives C a headstart and maybe makes him less likely to drop off the list.

(caveat, I haven't personally seen this fight other than a trivial 10man pull because we wanted to hear his voice, so this idea may be completely off-base)

This might make sense if everyone has the same gear, though as you noted, it'd require some quick adaptation from healers, which can be bad. The problem is that you often don't have three tanks with identical gear. If you do, great. But you don't want to be rearranging things so that your 4/9 Dreadnaught tank clicks off a buff to drop himself below your 8/8 Wrath tank who now takes the bulk of the HS's.

In my view, if you have the DPS with room to spare, just have your fury warriors wait a while before engaging. Everyone else can go in almost immediately.

switching healing targets seems to weed out the men from the boys for healing classes

♦ Praetorian · 08/27/06, 4:18 AM

Uh, yeah. When you have healing set up such that one person is taking 7k damage every 2.4 seconds and someone else is taking 7k damage once every 20 seconds, and then you suddenly swap the two, that's not a recipe for stability. It's an overly complex solution to a fairly simple problem.

Whiteknight · 08/27/06, 4:19 AM

Yeah, that makes sense to me.

The strategy wouldn't work for my raid - mainly because I only have 3 tanks that are capable of getting hit by him and living. The gear gap between the first offtank and the second one is large enough that if I wanted to play tricks like this, I'd be lowering hp by enough to seriously jeopardize the raid.

The idea of delaying the fury wars a little is intriguing, but one that would only work for us once we've buffed the rest of the raid dps a little, I think.

Oh well, it's not a gear-check fight for nothing :)

Trazhenko · 08/27/06, 5:28 AM

Originally Posted by Kalman

Originally Posted by DeeNogger

isnt that just like a +15% attack speed for a few seconds? is it really worth it? although, patchwerk is supposed to be a dps crazy fight, so i guess it is. hmmm, never would have thought about that

20% attack speed for 10 seconds at <40% health, IIRC. 20% attack speed for 10 seconds is well, well worth it, especially since Patch has *zero* splash damage and there's an easy way to drop yourself to <40%.

It's 30% attack speed @ 40% or lower HP, but only 10% at max HP.

Calantus · 08/27/06, 6:02 AM

Tell your DPS to stop taking slime baths. Here's the scenario you're basically painting for yourself otherwise:

The only way the DPS warrior would get hit by HS is if they get into the top 4 aggro AND have higher HP than the remaining tanks in the top 4. What this means is that both the other tanks have <5k HP at the time of HS and if it hits them instead of the 10k HP tank who just lost 4th place they are going to be 1shot. Fortunately the DPS warrior will take the HS 1shot and things can go on as normal... only he's sitting on something stupid like 2k HP and so one of the offtanks cops the HS and dies. Then it most probably chains down as healers are now having to heal much more often than expected and probably can't keep up with the damage their tank is taking, or at least not in a way that's sustainable and you eventually wipe.

So yeah... stop the slime baths. If they weren't going to cop a HS there's no need for a slime bath, and if they WERE going to cop a HS the last thing you want them to do is avoid it by being low health.

sp00n · 08/27/06, 6:04 AM

Ok, I'm a bit confused now.
So what does trigger the Hateful Strike then, the amount of HP you have or the amount of aggro you have, generated either by yourself or by Patchwerk?

1) When Patchwerk hits you, he generates a significant amount of extra threat for the target of his attack. This applies both to autoattacks and HS. I do not know if the value for autoattack differs from the value for HS.
2) Every 1.2sec, Patchwerk uses HS. He looks to people in melee range with him and selects the #2 through #4 highest-threat players at melee (after the MT, of course). Whichever of those three has the highest current HP, he will attempt to HS.

That's it.

But you don't want to be rearranging things so that your 4/9 Dreadnaught tank clicks off a buff to drop himself below your 8/8 Wrath tank who now takes the bulk of the HS's.

Calantus · 08/27/06, 6:32 AM

Originally Posted by sp00n

Ok, I'm a bit confused now.
So what does trigger the Hateful Strike then, the amount of HP you have or the amount of aggro you have, generated either by yourself or by Patchwerk?

Both. :P

He looks to people in melee range with him and selects the #2 through #4 highest-threat players at melee (after the MT, of course). Whichever of those three has the highest current HP, he will attempt to HS.

Above is all you need to know, don't worry about the stuff in the other quote.

Cold · 08/27/06, 8:12 AM

Bit offtopic, but not worth an new topic i guess.
Can you skip the trash before patchwerk, and fight him at the entrance to his "room"(after he slimes)?

EDIT: Fixed Kaubel

Chaotik · 08/27/06, 8:45 AM

Originally Posted by Cold

Bit offtopic, but not worth an new topic i guess.
Can u skip the trash before patchwerk, and fight him at the entrance to his "room"(after he slimes)?

Pull him to Anub's room imo.

Kaubel · 08/27/06, 9:57 AM

Originally Posted by Cold

u

And no profile. I predict wonderful things for you here.

Pyros · 08/27/06, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Cold

Bit offtopic, but not worth an new topic i guess.
Can u skip the trash before patchwerk, and fight him at the entrance to his "room"(after he slimes)?

He aggroes all the abominations still alive. I'm not 100%sure about the lab packs tho, but I know one night we wiped too much on him and soon after a pull the abominations in the first room had repopped and aggroed us. Was a pretty sad end for the night ^^. Also, the farther he has to run, the less time you have before enrage. And if you pull in a weird place, you might not have too much room to kite him around for the last 5%

♦ Praetorian · 08/27/06, 10:24 AM

Why would you kite him around for the last 5%? You can tank Patchwerk until death with no casualties.

His 200khp-remaining enrage is a very different thing from his "7 mins passed, you lose" enrage.