Zacard

More consumables? Blah. The power of these potions shouldn't be as ludicrous as our current batch are. The idea that T2 with consumables > T3 with none doesn't sit well with me. I thought Blizzard was trying to eliminate consumable dependency by nerfing the Blasted Lands stuff, Spirit of Zandalar, Zanzas, etc. Not to mention the one-food buff allowance and shared cooldowns -- ndb/tuber sharing healthstone/rune timer, for example. If consumables maintain their relative power come expansion, we could reasonably surmise that a Karazhan-equipped raid with a billion potions will have equal or greater power than a Black Citadel-equipped raid with zero consumables.

Perhaps they'll wise up and allow only one potion, one flask, and one food buff. Looking over this list, my instinct tells me otherwise...

 

◊ Praetorian

This is the best solution. One elixir slot, one flask slot, and then a third slot for short-duration potion use like Stoneshield and Limited Invuln. (Also, I think Greater ___ Protection pots should have their durations reduced to 2 minutes -- if it hasn't absorbed damage by then, it's gone.)

 

Malan

Its a matter of supply/demand too. Once you've sold a Lionheart Helm to every warrior, you're SOL on making cash. Whereas everyone needs to restock pots each week. Not much of a way to improve that model. The only way the static professions continue to see any use is by infusing the servers with new players.

Edit - on the subject of changing how the pots/food interact, I'd love to see some system in the game that tells you what stacks and what doesn't. Figuring it out by trial and error is expensive.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

malthrin

The problem isn't with Alchemy? No, the problem is in raid encounter design based off of the available buffs through Alchemy and the economics (time- and money- wise) of gathering particular herbs required for the useful potions in Alchemy. See what those two have in common?

I'd love to be proved wrong via the new 'rating' mechanic and its potential implications for limiting consumable buffs, but if these new potions are going to exist in the same system we have today, I'm fairly irked with Blizzard for not acknowledging the current issues with consumables. What level of out-of-raid prep time is reasonable as a ratio to attempt-time? Surely 1:1 is a maximum.

Arenas and their blessedly consumable-free confines just look better and better by contrast, however!

Travian - Resto Druid
Malthrin - Priest

 

Copernicus

Before Naxx, potions always felt like they were there to push a little bit. Protection potions to ease healing requirements as people learned fights, DPS potions to make the kill slightly faster. We used DPS potions to help push our first kill after learning the fight. There weren't any requirements to bring them, and a lot of people just used the cheap stuff occasionally. And the guild brought Flask of the Titans for the tanks.

After Naxx, consumable content is ridiculous. Our main tanks are slamming down Stoneshield potions and Flask of the Titans. Everyone can spend 10 or more gold on a Patchwerk wipe. People are leaving alts in Scarlet Monastery (everyone is at friendly with Thorium Brotherhood now thanks ot the Kingsblood). Fights are being designed around heavy consumable content, and it's not something gear will ever make up for.

I enjoyed it when a profession gave a slight edge or a way to make some spare change. They nerfed engineering in PvP because mind control caps and rocket helms were just too powerful, forcing all serious PvPers to get that. I'm hoping that the expansion gets us back to the point where consumables are there for helping out at the learning stages and not "Patchwerk time. Everyone buff up like crazy and drink your mana pots/runes on every cooldown."


Edit: A one flask and one elixir maximum would be awesome. Unlimited potions because those are meant to be used up quickly (Limited Invuln, Protection, etc). Still doesn't solve the sheer power of mana potions though. Maybe each raid instance can sell zone-bound potions at a rep level associated with it.

 

Elendril

yeah, the crafting economy is much more one of peaks and valleys than consumables. back when dire maul came out, i was pretty much the ONLY person on the server with Hide of the Wild pattern. you wanted a hide, you came to me, or you asked someone else and they sent you to me. i can't even remember how many hides i sold for 25g crafting each, and i made many thousands of gold. today anyone can make a hide of the wild, and every main who wants one has one, so the only thing i ever make money crafting now is Corehound Belt, and that's on the very rare occasion that A) someone knows Corehound Belt exists and B) actaully has the crazy MC mats to make it.

 

Creediki

IMHO guild vs guild competition should not hinge around who can farm the most shadow resist potions. Perhaps this is a pipe dream of mine. Perhaps no other mechanic exists.

On the other hand, they already have some things in place that would emphasise the benefits without requiring immense time sinks. Cooldowns on transmutes create limits on the amount of items certain people can create in a time period. Combine that with potions that are Bind on Use, have unlimited charges, but are destroyed after x # of days. Now 1 alchemist can support x number of people with the buff. Who does he sell this limited but very useful ability to? The guild? The Market? a bit of both?

Consider it like the blessing mechanic alliance guilds have to work out for raids. Who gets what blessing?
Now expand similar buffs for other professions, or move existing buffs to other professions.


Result : Less farming. Less time spent on the profession. A Strategy element to professions and the buffs they provide.

*** Who Dares Wins ***
"The noblest fate that a man can endure is to place his own mortal body between his loved home and the war's desolation." - Heinlein
"Come and take them!�*" - Leonidas

 

• Chicken

I'd see it more likely as resulting in a practically endless amount of Alchemy alts, though perhaps I'm a bit jaded.

buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of

 

Mithin

I like the idea of using mass consumables for end game raiding. The problem is the fact that you have to spend so much time preparing for such encounters. Instead, why not just increase the productivity? When picking dreamfoil, allow one node to provide 3-10 instead of 1-3. Along with this, alchemists could make two or three potions from the same materials (it seems as though the expansion is expanding on this idea with the chance to create extra potions from one craft).

This way, raiders are still maximizing their capabilities but at a much lower cost and time investment.

http://ctprofiles.net/37634

 

Tuco

Hmm... The noggaholics guys use a sandbox right?

I would have figured that the sandbox wouldn't have herb spawns in the same way they don't have mob spawns.

Either way, there were a few things I wanted to see in TBC wrt consumables:

1. No powerful consumables.
2. Easy to farm consumables.
3. BoE epics that raiders could sell for money, and would then use said money to buy consumables/mats from the very people they sell the epics to.

Unless they dramatically increase the amount of mana regen at 70, 70m/5s will be huge.

 

Kalmiroth

Easy way out from balancing tradeskills is just to create minor buffs for blacksmithers/lw's to sell and those to be usable on equipment. Just like wizard oils/sharpening stones, just to other pieces of equipment. Problem lies in the scary amount of buffs possible to single player when you can temporary buff every armorslot, take 10 pots and get raidbuffs :/

 

Krill

A while ago I've posted some ideas on the EU official forums to check how much people care about current state of crafting. No one cares, it seems.

To be succesful, crafting profession have to provide unique effects that appeal to large part of the realm community and fit WoW economy system. Right now only alchemy works like that. Engineering got unique effects, but is limited to engineers mostly. Enchanting got unique effects and appeals to mayority of players, but doesn't fit economy system well (no option to sell via AH). Tailoring/leatherworking/armorcrafting use raid materials to provide specialized raiding gear, which puts them in niche. Weaponcrafting... is pretty much dead on any mature server (one axe with unique raiding effect is not nearly enough). Because profession that provides items that directly compete with loot from dungeons and PvP is basically doomed.

So yes, "potions called differently" (sharpening stones, chains, spikes and new effects like reinforced grip, pummel, poison applicators, sword breaker modification to name few possibilities) seem like be the only way to make those professions useful again.

 

henaki

I don't see why they just integrate crafting into dungeon items, similar to that of Naxxramas, only instead of using turn ins torwards an NPC, you create the actual items.

For example, if you kill King Jerk Fel-Orc, he drops a "Magical Harness", which is they key ingredient in about 5 different cloth shoulders of varying uses, and is more powerful than the actual drops off said boss. You destroy the solo requirements of said item, while still sustaining the ability to make crafting useful. It might be more forced, but it will sure as fuck make a Swordsmith happier when he can create the best sword "available" in Coilfang Resevoire.

Much better example:
Pattern: Shoulders of Spell Power
+32 to spell damage
+17 intellect
+14 stamina

Requires:
Magical Harness (Drops off final boss of 5man Hellfire Citadel)
2 Felcloth
1 Rune Thread

Pattern is available by completing a quest in the instance.

This also allows you to artifically limit the availability of certain items in new ways, for example, if you have a cooldown based system, you can limit the amount of Epic Chest Piece of the Eagles in by putting a cooldown on them, or a reagent required.

Gur - Level 64 Undead Warlock on Hellfire

 

Mithin

In terms of weapon crafting, what about leaning more towards the 'eye of sulfuras' model. Where you needed a rare item drop but were still required to get the item crafted. Now in the case of sulfuras, it was usually the same guild that had the pattern since it came from an ingot but there seem to be be many possibilities for such patterns in the future regarding reputation, random world drops and boss kills.

Edit: very similar to the poster above me, same timing ><

http://ctprofiles.net/37634

 

◊ Kaubel

There are a few things I've practically given up on. One is a feral offhand, the other is a good leather recipe for druids.

 

Necrotoid

One thing was missed in this post, and I'm surprised it's gone so long without mentioning: the ability of one profession to create base MATERIALS which cannot be found in any other way. The obvious examples are:

Alchemy: arcanite
Tailoring: mooncloth
Leatherworking: refined salt

The reason this is an excellent system is because the generation abilities are on day-long cooldowns (hence why DEing is basically profitless as a skill, unless you want mats from a BoP item). Giving leatherworking and tailoring the ability to create materials that are highly valuable from materials that are not gives them a way to earn their daily bread. These materials can then be used as base materials by an incredibly diverse number of quests and plans. It does not matter that the market for Lionheart helms will saturate, because arcanite has so many uses it's price is relatively stable.

The only flaw with the current implementation is they gave the most valuable "transmutation" (arcanite) to the crafting profession already associated with the most valuable gathering profession. The least valued crafting and gathering pair (sknning / leatherworking) also got the least valuable "transmutation". I'd like to see more of this in the future: each crafting profession having 1-2 ways of generating a unique material on a 1-4 day cooldown or something. It would be easy to balance the most valuable transmutations to the least valuable professions (Flasks now require Refined Salt, anyone?) to keep the desirability of all crafting professions roughly the same.

DOT and rot.
Travian: Phased Weasel, -144 | 61, Damascus.

 

Mithin

http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=18251

I kid :P

http://ctprofiles.net/37634

 

Necrotoid

I wish they would spend the extra day coding and give druids the ability (possibly talented) to dual-wield claws and fist weapons. Does Eskhandar's set not seem designed for feral druids? The ZG claws would become highly desired by some, instead of a novelty toy.

DOT and rot.
Travian: Phased Weasel, -144 | 61, Damascus.

 

henaki

This would make things worse honestly, because people would come up with the brilliant plan of making alts to create larger amounts of Flasks, and now we get to balance encounters around it since everyone is doing it!

PS Hi Necrotoid, it's Gur, that Warlock that was in your guild for 2 weeks.

Gur - Level 64 Undead Warlock on Hellfire

 

Necrotoid

Interesting point. Using the cooldown-transmutations in raid-required consumables would be a trainwreck, even more so than what we already have with 3 herbalism alts camping grave moss and 1 more in the Hinterlands for ghost mushrooms.

However, I stand by my idea of all professions having a "transmutation" to provide base materials for crafted items. Arcanite has almost no use in raiding, so raiding alts don't need alchemy to generate the required arcanite for the guild. Arcanite is mostly bought by the masses for all kinds of other stuff.

And high Gur! I've seen this name posting a lot, didn't know it was you. I remember the screenies you showed of WSG in the flag room, with the Horde and Allies sitting around a campfire refusing to fight. You'll be happy to know we dropped Huhu and have Emps at 63% (and someone gave me responsibility in the guild, who's foolish idea was that?)

DOT and rot.
Travian: Phased Weasel, -144 | 61, Damascus.

 

Krill

I'm not sure it's enough to make those professions attractive. Currently main demand for salt, arcanite and mooncloth is related to quests, other crafters that make raid resistance gear and recent addition, tier III gear quests. Of course I can imagine more quests and more tier items that require crafter involvement, but in the end it would put crafters in very small niches - each of them would just log x time to use his cooldown to produce thing, that would be very remotely related to the name of his profession.

Much better suggestion is mentioned above including special material drop on bosses that can be used by crafters to make items better then normal boss drops. Something like Pristine Hide of the Beast, but using real crafters, not NPCs. And with higher drop rate.

I still think adding more potion-like effects to all the crafting professions is good all around solution. Upgrades that can be put on any armor/weapon will always be in bigger demand then single pieces of gear. Alchemy follows this rule, same with enchanting (although this profession is bottlenecked by ineffective distribution channels) and jewelcrafting will follow it as well.

 

Digo

Burglecutt (guildmate who posts here, whose idea I'm stealing!) had an awesome suggestion that addresses the herb problem while making World PvP more than a passing joke. The current reward for World PVP is a buff. Whoopitty doo.

Now imagine that in a particular hotzone, the mining, fishing, and herbalism nodes spawn 200% faster. The hotzone changes every couple hours. I don't know about you, but if the nodes in Winterspring were spawning like mad, my entire guild would be there in a heartbeat.

I know the designers are reluctant to force PVP on anyone, and they don't wand bands of ravenning raiders descending upon a zone and ruining gameplay for "civilians". Create a trinket like the Proxy of Nozdormu that you keep in your bag and lets you loot the hotzone herbs. When you have the trinket on you, it causes a 15 minute debuff that makes you a PVP target. So no destroying the trinket to get out of combat and escape death. This also separates the combatants from the civvies.

 

Elendril

i actually suggested the same thing basically. heh. instead of having us fight over sand, we can fight over herbs :-P bringing back X sand to your base spawns dreamfoil in your faction's protected area. herbs for everyone!

 

Darke

Great suggestion.

 

Humbaba

Jewel crafting has some interesting consumables, too. A few examples:

Black Pearl Panther Figurine: Increase Attack Power by 90 for 12s
Nightseye Panther Figurine: Increase Attack Power by 320 for 12s

Jade Owl: Restores 30 mana every second for 12 sec.
Emerald Owl: Restores 60 mana every second for 12 sec.
Talasite Owl: Restores 900 mana over 12 sec.